Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

[Michelles]

Hope someone can help me. I've been asked to pay back some training costs but 5 other colleagues who have just left in the last 6 weeks have not had to pay the money back. The companies rationale when I asked was that they believed they had "some" benefit from the training from the leavers before they left...I have since requested copies of anything I have signed permitting the company to take this from my pay and for them To provide the evidence that the "benefit " the company believes they had from the leavers doesn't apply to me and what the criteria is before I decide what to do next (I've been doing the course most of the year) I actually resigned last week anyway but I'm off sick with a bone break (bad timing!) and my first day back to hand my things back is 2 days before I officially leave and I fear they will take the cost out of my final salary leaving me with negative pay . The company policy is to repay which I absolutely don't mind but when others have left they didn't need to pay back so I feel I've been singled out and I'm not sure if I have any choice or whether could argue some kind of unfair treatment and inconsistent application of a policy equally across staff. I can guarantee they can't define any benefit of the course to the role as it has no bearing on the role I do or the leavers did......hope this makes sense....

[judgemental24]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

I will be honest the other people who have left are irrelevant and enter no part in the grievance

The issue is a contract you have with the company for training and will be paid back pro rata over xyz period of time as dictated in the contract you signed

If you leave within that period the employer can deduct that cost from your final wage and pursue you in the civil court for any balance remaining.

Do you have a copy of this contract you sgned?

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Hi. I haven't got a copy but I have asked for one and any copies of anything else they say I have signed . I did speak to ACAS who advised me to seek legal advice on unfair treatment so I have written to my boss to ask for more information before I agree which route to take, they were pushing me to do a grievance today for tomorrow but I feel I'm being rushed without seeing all the evidence and due to me being off sick they have removed all my access to systems so I can't even read the grievance policy .......can they actually take the payment and leave me with zero pay (even if I see evidence of something I have signed). I have no problem paying the money back (maybe not in one go as its a large amount) but it feels unfair to only ask me if a company policy applies to all staff then it should be all.....

[judgemental24]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

I am afraid yes they can as you signed a contractual agreement

You can ask if you can set up a standing order and pay in instalments but they do not have to agree

I really cannot say much more until you have a copy of that agreement

If they cannot find it they then cannot enforce it against you or take money out of your final wages but custom and practice might kick in then

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Thank you so much for the reply, I shall await a copy and see where I stand and come back. Much appreciated

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Hi

there is nothing in my contract but I completed a training request form where I ticked a t&c box indicating I agreed to a professional qualifications policy... My company says this is taken as express consent to the T&C’s and therefore to the clawback. The responsibility to read the T&Cs having had them drawn to your attention in this way sits with the applicant.

So does this mean I'm going to have to pay the course fees based on implied consent?

[judgemental24]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Your old employer are talking out their backside

Unless there is a clear schedule in this training contract on how any training fees were to be paid back they can go and Whistle

There has to be a signed Express consent from you for any deductions by contract. That being the Training request agreement

You need to be asking for a copy of this signed contract from your old employer

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

so just to clarify, the training form was online excel sheet so signing was system generated I think......the clawback policy where the t&cs are implied I've read the policy says

Recovery of Financial Support (Clawback)
Colleagues are personally liable for repayment of part or all of their study costs to the Company in all of the following circumstances:

• Following ongoing review it is apparent that the colleague is making insufficient progress in their study programme.
• A colleague chooses to stop their studies. (Consideration will be given to not recovering costs where significant, unforeseen, long-term personal circumstances prevent a colleague from continuing.)
• A colleague leaves the Group of their own accord during their studies or within 24 months of completing the qualification.
• A colleague has their employment terminated by the Company for disciplinary or capability reasons.

Ive not physically signed anything in pen nor does my employment contract say anything......does this make sense?

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

so just to clarify, the training form was online excel sheet so signing was system generated I think......the clawback policy where the t&cs are implied I've read the policy says

Recovery of Financial Support (Clawback)
Colleagues are personally liable for repayment of part or all of their study costs to the Company in all of the following circumstances:

• Following ongoing review it is apparent that the colleague is making insufficient progress in their study programme.
• A colleague chooses to stop their studies. (Consideration will be given to not recovering costs where significant, unforeseen, long-term personal circumstances prevent a colleague from continuing.)
• A colleague leaves the Group of their own accord during their studies or within 24 months of completing the qualification.
• A colleague has their employment terminated by the Company for disciplinary or capability reasons.

Ive not physically signed anything in pen nor does my employment contract say anything......does this make sense?

am I right to assume they can't claw back here?

[mariefab]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Does the policy indicate how the repayment/clawback can be achieved.
For example; does it state that it can be deducted from your wages?

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Does the policy indicate how the repayment/clawback can be achieved.
For example; does it state that it can be deducted from your wages?

Hi, all I can get from the policy is below:

This forms part of the contract between the colleague and the Company and the Company reserves the right to deduct and the colleague agrees to the Company deducting, any monies due to it in accordance with this policy from the colleague’s salary and/or any other payments or monies due to the colleague from the Company. For larger amounts individual repayment plans can be agreed and implemented.

[mariefab]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Was it possible for you to read this policy before you ticked the box in the training request form.

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Was it possible for you to read this policy before you ticked the box in the training request form.

it possibly was but it would have been something I would have had to search for on an intranet site, not obvious where such a policy would be.....

[mariefab]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

If the policy was on the intranet or someone could have told you, if asked, where to locate it before you ticked the box on the training form you accepted the T&Cs (without reading them) and are bound by them.
OK, the Employment Rights Act states that deductions by employer and/or payments to employer are unenforceable unless you've previously consented in writing BUT these sections were introduced in 1996.
If signifying consent by a tick box wasn't enforceable think of the consequences for insurance policies and all the other online agreements these days.
So, the technicality of not having used a pen won't assist you.

The only thing I can think of that might is if all the other 5 leavers are different to you in connection to a protected characteristic. e.g. if they are all male and you are female etc.

[Michelles]

Re: Inconsistent claw back policy application to staff for training costs

Thanks for the reply, after receiving a load of great advice I've decided to raise a grievance (legally I have to pay it back) as advised by acas about the clawback of my fees as opposed to the other leavers as unfair treatment and to ask them to reconsider the fee in light of ex colleagues not having the policy applied consistently ie they Should have paid back 100% but didn't and there is no difference in our jobs, roles, duration etc. I raised the informal grievance today and I'm expecting an answer Friday but what I'm worried about is after Friday I am no longer employed by the company so if they don't come back Friday are they obliged to follow through for example, they won't reconsider fee so I have to raise a formal greaivance (the greivance policy is applicable for current employees) ....