Potentially up for another disciplinary

[KarachiKid]

Good evening,

Last year on November 24th I received a first written warning for insubordination. I don't feel that it was deserved so I appealed, but lost.
Today my manager asked me to do something which doesn't fall within my role. I refused and she's threatened disciplinary action. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm fearing the worst. My question is: if they decide to give me a written warning which is issued after the 24th November, would this be classed as a first written warning due to the initial one expiring, or would it be classed as a second because the incident which prompted the disciplinary occurred within 12 months of the initial one being issued?

Many thanks.

P.S. I'm in the UK (despite the username)

[judgemental24]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

You might have problems

A common clause in contracts of employment will be to undertake rasonable duties as directed by a manager.

This does not mean just your current job description

The only time you can really refuse is if you have not been trained on this other duty or by doing it untrained may put in danger yourself or others

[KarachiKid]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Hi judgemental24,

Thanks for the quick response. This is down to me refusing to train a new member of staff next week. Training new members sits within the creation of the new Team Leader's role (as per the job spec) and has never featured within mine, even though I have trained almost everyone on the team before the position of Team Leader existed.
Given the way the last disciplinary was handled, I'm not expecting for this to go away without receiving a written warning, call me paranoid. However, I'm still unsure if it'll be the first or second if they issue the written over a year past the first.

Thanks

[Adrasteia]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Does your contract or handbook specify how long a warning lasts for ?
I know that some companies do specify the level of warning and its lenght of application, a bit like s suspended prison sentence.

Is 1st Written warning the initial step in the disciplinary process

A year seems a long time for a first warning to be valid

[stevemLS]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Written warnings often apply for 6 or 12 months.

Failure to follow a reasonable instruction can amount to gross misconduct.

I think you may have cause to worry, particularly as you say you have trained everyone else. What form does the training take, how long does it last? How long have you worked there?

[Adrasteia]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Stevemls

The problem with the warning systems is that different companies use different terminology . One company may go verbal, written, dismissal another may go first written, final written , dismissal .
That is why I asked if it was the 1st step or had they skipped one

I do think though that if I were an employer and someone said I am not doing that it is not in my job description I would be pretty pissed off and if they did it more than once I may not want that person in my employ

[KarachiKid]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

My employee handbook states that I should have received a verbal warning first. However, the information on the company intranet says a written warning.
The letter I received for the first warning stated 12 months.

The role and the team has changed so much since I joined just over three years ago. Recently (about a month ago) a new position was created for Team Leader. This role had never been around before. On the Team Leader job spec, it says:

In addition to your current duties, as Team Leader your responsibilities will include:

 Organising and undertaking the training for new team member[sic].

(As well as others.)

My contract doesn't mention training others, nor does any of the points which determine how well I performed throughout the year. As far as I am aware it's not my responsibility.

I received an email from my manager which listed the points we talked about in a "chat" (it was never implied that it was ever going to be formal in this chat). It sounds like she's going to go down the formal route. I proposed a solution where I would train this person (under duress) and asked for a clear set of objectives so I can better understand what's expected of me within the business. I'll likely receive the reply tomorrow.
In the meantime I've also got an email conversation going on with her boss who is much more reasonable with responses, so I'll hopefully iron things out without needing to go down the disciplinary route.

[stevemLS]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

@Adrastia is correct, different terminology is used by different organisations.

However, disciplinary sanctions are not necessarily sequential, so whatever it says about verbal, written, final written, dismissal or whatever, it depends on the circumstances of the misconduct and its gravity. So, where it is as described here, a particular circumstance may warrant omitting one or more stages in the process and going straight for one of the graver sanctions.

If,, for example, you are caught thieving or you thump the boss, you will almost certainly be dismissed without any prior warning or notice.

Insubordination can be regarded as a serious disciplinary offence as it undermines all discipline in the workplace. As with any other label, though, it comes n a range of degrees of seriousness.

OP, your previous warning was plainly active at the time this latest problem arose and so, if I was hearing it, I would take it into account.

How long have you worked there.

[KarachiKid]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Hi StevemLS,

I've worked their for three years. I will post details of the last disciplinary if it helps later (parent duty calls right now) after I've omitted all the information which would help identify the company and its employees.

Thanks.

[stevemLS]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

Well, that's something, at least you have full employment rights.

[Adrasteia]

Re: Potentially up for another disciplinary

To be frank it is quite difficult to give accurate advice without knowing more about your job and the company, however, there are obvious reasons why you may not want them to be disclosed . I do not think I would want my employer to be named in your position.

Moving on from that, so you have quoted from the team leaders job description but that isn't really of help . I assume that you are not a team leader.
What is important is what YOUR job description is and what your duties are. If there is a section that says you may be required to undertake any reasonable duties as requested then you are on difficult ground .

I am afraid long gone are the days of job demarcations where I couldn't change a light bulb for fear of the maintenance staff going out on strike because that was their job. People are expected to be multiskilled in this day and age

I am not saying if this is right or wrong , that is for another time and place