compromise agrrement

[snowie123]

Re: compromise agrrement

she is only 53 i think she is so scared going into the real wild world and working for another employer, she as been taken advice all day off friends, neighbours and colleagues just take the money and move on

I think the amount she is paid is very relevant here.

Why would she be unable to regain employment ? Is she near retirement age?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: compromise agrrement

15 k is an insult

how many hours do you do a week

sorry for sticking my nose in but roughly what is your take home pay a month/year

You mention union, what line of work are you in?

she worked 40 hours per week company administrator for private healthcare for 10 years take home pay approx 1500 per mouth

Why do you say it's an insult? Statutory redundancy pay is just a week's pay for year of service unless you were over 41, and it's capped at £475 a week so you'd be looking at just £4,750 unless she was 51 or older, in which case it would be just over £7,000.

I'm told (by someone who knows) that the average ET award is just £5,000. The ET takes into account how long you are out of work, for up to one year, but if the hearing takes place six months into your dismissal, the remaining six months would be projected future loss so they may only award for six months so you'd be looking at £7,500 + basic award of £4,750 or £7,000 (depending on age) + around £500 for loss of statutory rights, no more than £15,000, and that's subject to her not finding alternative employment in six months and being able to demonstrate that she tried hard, otherwise the award can be less.

In this case it's £15k hassle-free even if she finds a job the day after she leaves. When you put it into perspective, it's not quite as bad.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: compromise agrrement

Not that I'm aware of, but the sooner you get their contribution figure, the sooner you can speak with a lawyer that's the best (and most important) first thing to do. This agreement waives nearly (if not all) rights to bring a claim, so it's very very important.

Compromise agreements usually involve waiving all rights to bring a claim, although I know someone who entered into such agreement and still went ahead and issued a claim, however, I also know he put a lot of time, money and energy into fighting it: http://www.redmans.co.uk/uncategoriz...ise-agreements As you will see below, employers have to be careful not to leave the door open for another Dr Hinton to take advantage of that fact.

The purpose of compromise agreements

Employees (and workers, a different category of persons working under a contract of service) are vested with certain rights at their employment by virtue of their contract of employment and statute. Under statute employees (and workers in some areas) have the right to, for example, not be discriminated against and not be unfairly dismissed. They can exercise these rights at any time (depending upon the type of claim and their employment status) – at the recruitment stage, during their employment, and at the termination of their contract of employment. Where there may be a potential claim, employers will want to limit or exclude the employee’s right to make such claims in return for consideration (a cash payment, normally).

Why it is necessary to exclude all claims

When the employer is trying to limit or exclude its liability, it must be careful to list out all potential claims that the worker or employee may have. This is primarily a result of the Court of Appeal’s judgment in Hinton v East London University[2005]. In Hinton the Court of Appeal held that compromise agreements must clearly identify all the statutory claims that are being settled in the compromise agreement. If there is a failure to do so then there is no binding waiver and the employee is entitled to bring a claim for any statutory claims not included in the compromise agreement.

If there is general wording in the compromise agreement (i.e. “all statutory claims are excluded”) then this will also not suffice. It would also be necessary not only to identify the statute that is being excluded (such as the “Equality Act 2010”) but also to include all potential claims under that Act, for example “sex discrimination” or “direct sex discrimination”. Further, if actual proceedings are ongoing against the employer, the compromise agreement should make specific reference to this.

An interesting further comment in Hinton is the suggestion that employment lawyers should not use standard template compromise agreements but that each compromise agreement should be tailored to the specific circumstances of the parties in any one instance.
Consequences of not excluding all claims
Should the employer fail to either exclude all the claims (i.e. through insufficient and general wording) the employee is free to pursue their employer for any and all relevant claims in their circumstances. If, however, the employer excludes every claim but (for some reason) the waiver of the right to claim unfair dismissal under s.94(1) Employment Rights Act 1996 is left out of the compromise agreement then the employee is entitled to pursue their employer for unfair dismissal (should, again, this be possible on the particular facts).

Which claims are excluded from the “all claims” ambit?
Generally, the employee’s right to claim for personal injury (except for personal injury claims that they don’t have knowledge of at the time of the compromise agreement) is preserved under the compromise agreement. However, the employer can (and may) attempt to exclude liability for personal injury. The employee’s right to claim for accrued pension rights should also be preserved under the compromise agreement.

[Amethyst]

Re: compromise agrrement

she is only 53 i think she is so scared going into the real wild world and working for another employer, she as been taken advice all day off friends, neighbours and colleagues just take the money and move on

Horrible situation for her. I was thinking if she was nearing retirement she could argue she wouldn't be able to return to work and thus would possibly be able to argue for lost earnings for the last year or so of working life before pensions kick in. At 53 that's not going to work.

If they did make her redundant then the basic stat redundancy would be around 16 weeks pay ( 1.5 weeks a year over age 43 I believe and as I think FP said - it'd probably be about £6k-£7k so the offer is about double that)

If she did go through some months of hell with them trying to get rid of her by pinning any old spurious rubbish on her ( as they seem to have alluded to) apart from the fact it would be incredibly uncondusive to happiness (stressful) if she let them unfairly dismiss her and went to tribunal she's likely not to get any more than that anyway.

Maybe try and push for a years salary ( £18k ) then meet in the middle somewhere ( they usually come in low and expect to go up a bit) and remember any accrued holiday pay and notice pay if they want her to leave immediately comes on top of that. The settlement would be income tax/NI free ( up to 30k I think). And remember to negotiate a bloody blinding reference along with the settlement.

I can completely understand how scary this is for her - it is going to be tough but try and help her see it as an opportunity - change can be good

[Amethyst]

Re: compromise agrrement

p.s. my maths is appalling so get [MENTION=37786]FlamingParrot[/MENTION] to check it xxx

[snowie123]

Re: compromise agrrement

no she is not pregnant no medical conditions what so ever to date , she as out standing service with the highest respect

[Amethyst]

Re: compromise agrrement

Nice how you give 10 years of your life to an employer and they turn around and do this isn't it. Is there any clue as to the reasons behind it ?

[judgemental24]

Re: compromise agrrement

That was my thinking and what i would ask

12 months salary which includes any PILON

Making sure as it is redundancy no tax or national insurance deduction being under 30 k

[snowie123]

Re: compromise agrrement

as the company as offered her a compromise of £15000, would it be in her interest to ask for a years salary which would be £23500

[judgemental24]

Re: compromise agrrement

If it was me that is what i would ask

They can only say no

Depends how desperate they are to sever the contract

What ever happens there will be some horse trading

Tell your rep on monday what you want and see how it goes when he negotiates the severance package

[FlamingParrot]

Re: compromise agrrement

If her take home pay is £1,500 a month that means her gross salary must be £22k a year. The gross weekly pay would be £423 so it's below the cap and that's a cap, not a minimum. £423 x 15 weeks (@1.5 weeks per year, 10 years) = £6,345. Of course redundancy means it's the role and not her who becomes redundant, so they couldn't hire a direct replacement but companies often get around it by arguing that "the role has changed". If they don't want her around, they'll start looking for reasons to take disciplinary action, questioning her performance, etc. There are many other ways to push people out such as sending them to work at another location (if allowed within the terms of her contract) known to be inconvenient, being re-assigned to another role, etc. :mmph: Settlements below £30k are not taxed. :thumb:

[Amethyst]

Re: compromise agrrement

Is that £1500 a month you mentioned earlier after tax then ?

But yes, if she is earning £23.5k pa then that's where her negotiation should begin IMO.

16 weeks @ £451 = £7216 - as an idea what statutory redundancy would be though. So their offer is still double.

Does she have her employment contract at home actually ? are there any specific redundancy terms etc in there? some firms do have better entitlements that stat redundancy pay so worth checking as then you know what would be likely should she turn down the compromise and they make her redundant anyway.

( again [MENTION=37786]FlamingParrot[/MENTION] is better at the maths - ah she already did it above...)


GOOD LUCK !!!!

[snowie123]

Re: compromise agrrement

thanks everyone for the replies its nice to know there are people who cares and who are willing to help ,your help and advice is very much appreciated once again thanks

If it was me that is what i would ask

They can only say no

Depends how desperate they are to sever the contract

What ever happens there will be some horse trading

Tell your rep on monday what you want and see how it goes when he negotiates the severance package

[judgemental24]

Re: compromise agrrement

Just a point of interest
My own severance package was

34 weeks wages
12 weeks PILON
Outstanding holiday entitlement

Just under a years wages tax free
Being a Rep i negotiated it myself:tinysmile_twink_t2: