Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

[pilsburypie]

Hi, just after some advice on what an employer legally can and can't do. I shall try and be as concise as possible.

This all relates to the Fire Service. Due to financial cuts, as has happened to most of the public sector, the Fire Service is reducing its costs by reducing staff numbers. This obviously has an impact on maintaining staffing levels.

A new idea that is likely to be imposed soon is to have just the minimum number of staff needed on duty for any given day. As a result, the extra people will be scheduled as off on leave. This is not a great deal different to previously, leave has always been preplanned in a way. However, due to trying to constantly maintain minimum staffing, a person will be scheduled to be off duty for more days than they have leave. This will result in a person "owing" the employer shifts (between 3-10 per year). The idea is that when the staffing is below the required minimum level, perhaps for sickness, the employer can recall an individual to make up this deficiency.

There is a lot of talk from both employees and employers about what and what can't be done leading to a bit of confusion. I'm just trying to get my head around it so have decided to ask here for someone externally to cast their eye over it. I'm unsure of how this repayment of shifts will work as I also believe the employer currently is! What denotes when they can ask? Most employees will have plans, holidays, childcare etc to manage - they will be aware when they are off but then may have to pay back one of these shifts at short notice. Kind of leaves everyone up in the air a bit.

[judgemental24]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

Th FBU will soon sort this one out

What you are talking about is proposed "Banking hours" and "Flexing up"

That has been tried before and an administrative knightmare. Not to mention your contract of employment has to give you a set of guaranteed hours over xyz number of days as an express terms

This can impact on statutory holiday entitlement and working time regulations as well

I take it these are just proposals at the moment and not yet a contractual term??

[pilsburypie]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

Thanks for the reply. Yes the FBU are involved, but there seems to be such a lack of understanding at all levels, that all explanations are never complete - a suck it and see approach.

As for proposals or not, this is very likely to come in to effect as of January. The problem is that as no one is being made redundant (as yet), we are loosing the required number of staff through natural wastage - retirement etc. As this is not instant and will take the next 12 months to start to approach the new staffing levels, we are currently a bit personnel rich at the moment for this new minimum staffing. However, to continue as we are, leaves us a bit personnel deficient.

As for an admin nightmare, I can fully understand that. What denotes when someone is on leave and when they are just off? On the days you are not on leave and just on rota days, are you expected to sit at home doing nothing just in case you are called to pay back?

Someone did mention that it is not fully legal to have people owing hours to be repayed at the employers discretion.

[judgemental24]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

Someone did mention that it is not fully legal to have people owing hours to be repayed at the employers discretion.

You are bang on
Contracted hours are an express term in your contract of employment

They tried to implement this Banking Hours and flexing up by unofficial executive action by line managers in Royal Mail. It simply does not work as the staffing levels have already been cut to the bone

Even now Royal Mail line managers are out delivering till 8 in the evening as the staff will have none of it as when it was first tried, the staff never got those banked hours back that same week.

Try administering it on a weekly/monthly basis,

What employers of high employee head count are trying to bring in such as the Fire Service and Royal Mail is

Annualised hours

Resist that with every bone in your body. You will be working say 5 hours a day during the summer and 11 hours a day during the winter

[pilsburypie]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

Annualised hours - This new system is nearly that. We are told you have to work X amount of shifts per year but the problem is you can't get them all in to maintain the minimum staffing levels as we are currently personnel rich. People are required to be scheduled off even when they have no leave. This is where you owing them comes in.

I suppose in a way we are slightly different from Royal Mail - They can predict with a good degree of certainty their busy and quiet times. Fire Service on the other hand is a lot more random.

[judgemental24]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

Yes i understand fully

I was on the picket line with them as a representative of my own Trade Unon on the retirement age issue showing my support

Have a chat with your local branch office for an update

[pilsburypie]

Re: Grey hours - Owe the employer shifts?

I will investigate further - thanks for your input. UNITY!