Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

[xbabe82517]

Hi, I've been suspended for the past five weeks due to an allegation of (I think) gross misconduct. I work for a large bank and have been accused of not sending letters when I should have been. This is based on nine complaints being received for cases I've dealt with since January 2015. Based on the number of cases I work (at least 10 per day) these are not big numbers. Due to a rather shoddy internal audit process (or lack of one) there is no proof I didn't send them and equally, no proof that I did. It's their word against mine. I've worked for this company for 11 years and am excellent at my job and very passionate. None of my colleagues would say otherwise. There are also witness statements from two colleagues who claim to have heard me say I don't send letters (both hearing the same conversation, not two separate conversations). I know what was overheard and I know it's been taken out of context - due to the number of returned letters we receive, I made a (perhaps silly) comment
that I don't see the point in sending these letters when customers don't receive them anyway. One of the witnesses confirms hearing the conversation but assumed I was joking (he knows me better) and the other witness claims she believed I was being serious.

Anyhow, the suspension was so they could investigate more of my cases to see how many there were. The initial investigatory meeting stated there were seven complaints. The subsequent investigation found two more. I received my invite to disciplinary which stated 'the meeting is to determine whether disciplinary action should be taken against you in accordance with the Group Disciplinary Policy'. A copy of this policy was also included with my invite. There was nothing further stated regarding the possible outcomes of this meeting.

I read their disciplinary policy and it states 'the invite letter WILL detail possible outcomes including, where it may be an outcome, dismissal for gross misconduct.' But my invite letter is very vague in that respect. The invite letter also gives details on what I am alleged to have breached but there is no mention of gross misconduct (or even misconduct) in any part of the letter. The only reason I'm assuming it's being treated as gross misconduct is because I was told this is what I was being investigated for in the letter which confirmed my suspension.

I've read on various sites that the invite letter should always include possible outcomes of a disciplinary hearing and that dismissal should never come as a surprise to someone. Based on the letter I've received, am I to assume that whilst they may impose other sanctions, they are no longer considering dismissal? I got the impression from the suspension letter and investigatory meeting that they expected to find loads of evidence against me, but they've actually only identified two more cases. Considering the total number of cases I work, if I was genuinely not sending letters (and I am being accused of deliberately not sending them) then they would have found three or four times the amount they found!

[vanman]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

I received my invite to disciplinary which stated 'the meeting is to determine whether disciplinary action should be taken against you in accordance with the Group Disciplinary Policy'

ok at this moment they have not decided to take disciplinary action against you


Gurnett v ASOS.com Ltd (employment tribunal)
From the outset, the employer must tell the employee the possible outcome of the disciplinary action. In order to give them a fair chance of defending the allegation properly, it should not come as a surprise to the employee later on that dismissal is a possibility.

The employer should provide the employee with all the evidence, typically in the form of witness statements, in advance of the disciplinary hearing. Ideally, the evidence should be provided when the employee is invited to the hearing, or at least far enough in advance for them to be able to prepare a defence.

http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/dis...e-of-practice/

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/r/2...08_for_web.pdf

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

I know that's what it sounds like based on the wording but it's definitely an invite to a disciplinary hearing rather than an investigatory meeting, which seems strange. And their process states that after the meeting, the hearing manager will make a decision. So if they've not mentioned dismissal as a possible outcome in my letter, could they still decide on dismissal after this meeting?

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

So following on from this, I called ACAS today who advised it's best practice to specifically state in the invite letter what the outcomes are and they advised me to contact my employer to question this. They advised that if I've highlighted an error on their part then it still won't matter if they send me a revised letter, the fact I have the first one without the outcomes stated would still be evidence they haven't followed best practice (should the matter to to tribunal).

So I called the hearing manager to confirm my attendance at the meeting and also to question the letter. He said he would contact HR and took my personal email address to send me the extra information. I've now received this and it states that if I am found guilty of gross misconduct, there are a number of options available (such as final warning etc.) but that I could be dismissed without notice.

So it seems my company have messed up with the invite letter and actually they could dismiss me at this meeting, even though there was initially no mention of this.

[Kafka]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

This sounds as if they are floundering and aren't sure what to do, as the paperwork is so whacky.
Having said that, it's the latest letter that matters.

Do you have a union you could speak to?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

I know that's what it sounds like based on the wording but it's definitely an invite to a disciplinary hearing rather than an investigatory meeting, which seems strange. And their process states that after the meeting, the hearing manager will make a decision. So if they've not mentioned dismissal as a possible outcome in my letter, could they still decide on dismissal after this meeting?

So following on from this, I called ACAS today who advised it's best practice to specifically state in the invite letter what the outcomes are and they advised me to contact my employer to question this. They advised that if I've highlighted an error on their part then it still won't matter if they send me a revised letter, the fact I have the first one without the outcomes stated would still be evidence they haven't followed best practice (should the matter to to tribunal).

So I called the hearing manager to confirm my attendance at the meeting and also to question the letter. He said he would contact HR and took my personal email address to send me the extra information. I've now received this and it states that if I am found guilty of gross misconduct, there are a number of options available (such as final warning etc.) but that I could be dismissed without notice.

So it seems my company have messed up with the invite letter and actually they could dismiss me at this meeting, even though there was initially no mention of this.

An investigation meeting and a disciplinary hearing are totally different things and you cannot be dismissed at an investigation meeting. The outcome of a disciplinary can be dismissal but that doesn't have to be communicated to you at the hearing, you can receive a letter at a later stage to that effect.

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

This sounds as if they are floundering and aren't sure what to do, as the paperwork is so whacky.
Having said that, it's the latest letter that matters.

Do you have a union you could speak to?

I only qualify for telephone advice as I joined on the day I was suspended but I'm actually pretty well informed here as my other half is a Risk Manager (just short of executive level) at the same company but a different department so he's extremely familiar with the whole process and what they should and shouldn't be doing. He's dealt with disciplinary and suspension issues for years and most certainly feels the letter itself is very vague compared to what would usually be sent, and that the suspension period has been excessive considering the investigation and the allegation. They've also set my expectations incorrectly on a couple of occasions regarding how long it would take and when I should expect to receive updates. I've usually had to chase them. When they were initially taking the allegations to HR (which is when HR have to agree it can be escalated further), they were asked to do further investigation before it could be escalated which suggests the case isn't very strong. However, despite that, they didn't actually find anything further against me but it ended up being escalated anyway. They were a week late getting the invite letter to me also, which I know in itself isn't a major thing but it's just another thing to add to the list with how they've messed me about. I also don't believe the hearing manager is totally independent either. They're able to have him do it because he reports into a different reporting line but he's still in the same office in the team next to mine and speaks to people in my department regularly. My other half doesn't like how it's being dealt with at all.

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

what precisely are the nature of the allegations been made against you, i know their complaints but whats the precise nature, and why/how do they count as gross misconduct? As per the companies own disciplinary policies and policies that you may have breached par se!

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

The letter states 'your actions have displayed a flagrant and wilful disregard for the department procedures and your actions are a breach of the group compliance requirements and conduct policy.'

It also states that the potential risk and impacts of my actions have a negative impact on customer service, a lack of the correct service being provided which could lead to complaints, and possible fines from regulatory bodies for failure to adhere to the compliance and conduct policies. It says my actions bring into question my personal integrity and the relationship of mutual trust which must exist between employer and employee has broken down.

They've made it sound as worse as it could possibly be. I think when I was suspended they assumed I was totally guilty and that they would find loads of evidence against me when they looked at all my cases for the past six months. But they actually didn't find anything else, so if I was purposefully not sending letters there would be a lot more evidence than what they have, based on the total number of cases I work (at least 100 per month).

[Trev1234]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

sounds to me that they are lining this up for dismissal on the basis of code of conduct (gross misconduct through various policy breaches) and supporting it my breakdown of mutual trust contract of employment! The whole nine yards! Good luck. T :doggieyes:

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

Well that's what I feel even though all of my colleagues, including my other half who's very experienced in these matters, don't feel the actual evidence they have is sufficient to say it was deliberate. Plus the suspension has been excessive as well (six weeks) and they've not kept me up to date when they said they would, they initially couldn't get it escalated to HR (I'm not sure why but they were asked to investigate more before it could be escalated) so everyone seems to be of the opinion they probably do want dismissal (or did when this started) but don't have enough to justify it because of how long it's dragged on for, meaning why would they continue to pay someone all that time if they knew they could get them in and sack them within two weeks (the average suspension time in our place, unless there's a criminal investigation required also). So I'm really in two minds about the whole thing because my gut feeling is that they'll sack me but everyone else is convinced otherwise.

At the end of the day, I lost the passion for this job a good six months ago with process changes and other things so I'm basically fighting more for my work record here rather than the job itself as I just don't want that on my record due to it being literally my only record of work. I was at college before this job so I imagine getting another job would be near impossible.

[Kafka]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

sounds to me that they are lining this up for dismissal on the basis of code of conduct (gross misconduct through various policy breaches) and supporting it my breakdown of mutual trust contract of employment! The whole nine yards! Good luck. T :doggieyes:

They appear to be leaving that option on the table even if it's not what they are planning.

[Trev1234]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

xBabe - keep going though I understand your position and feelings well - good luck!

[xbabe82517]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

Don't worry I will! I'm by no means a delicate little flower who can't handle the stress of these situations. And it wouldn't be the end of the world for me anyway (no kids or mortgage to pay) so I've already thought of the worst case scenario and I know this can be far worse for others so I have to see the positives. I also do believe everything happens for a reason, for the past year I've started to realise the banking industry in itself probably isn't for me anymore, let alone this particular job, so if it is the end of the road then I'm sure things will all work out in the end. And if I'm not sacked, I know I won't be hanging around there long anyway. I've already been putting some applications out there just to get myself familiar with it all again.

Thanks for the support!

[Trev1234]

Re: Disciplinary invite letter with no possible outcomes

Good on yer! How will you deal with refs? T