dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please hel

[Scigal]

Hello all, me again,,,, its been a while.

Short story: Got a new job 2 1/2 months ago. All good. Was given months notice on Monday, out of blue. Got official letter today which is a complete lie. And is damaging I need help.

I spoke to him he then gave a different reason, which is still nonsense.

spoke to my legal assistance, who told me to draft a letter. But I need help with it please.

Shall I put it her redacting personal info?

thanks x

[teaboy2]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Well sorry to tell you this, but you only been there two and a half months, so they can dismiss you regardless of the reason. And by the sounds of it, they haven't dismissed you par se, but they have given you notice that they intend to terminate your contract, which they are entitled to do.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Well sorry to tell you this, but you only been there two and a half months, so they can dismiss you regardless of the reason. And by the sounds of it, they haven't dismissed you par se, but they have given you notice that they intend to terminate your contract, which they are entitled to do.

That's true, however, for the purpose of future employment and references, I, for one, would be interested in the arguments they are using to terminate the employment as it doesn't sound like just plain notice. :mmph:

Short story: Got a new job 2 1/2 months ago. All good. Was given months notice on Monday, out of blue. Got official letter today which is a complete lie. And is damaging I need help.

I spoke to him he then gave a different reason, which is still nonsense.

[teaboy2]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

That's true, however, for the purpose of future employment and references, I, for one, would be interested in the arguments they are using to terminate the employment as it doesn't sound like just plain notice. :mmph:

May be so, but it wouldn't make any real difference unless the OP was discriminated against! Where as i suspect its more a performance related (possibly economic/financial related) and a manager/boss with no backbone so to speak.

[Scigal]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Address redacted
Subject: Appeal and grievance

Dear Mrs,

Thank you for your letter dated 12^th August 2015, which I receive today 13th August 2015. Subject: Probationary Dismissal.
I would like to appeal the decision and also, upon legal advice, I also wish to raise a formal grievance. The content of which overlaps so I respectfully request they be treated as one, rather than as isolated incidences.
The appeal and grievance is that the discussion between X, Managing Director of Company X Ltd and myself, on Monday 10^th August 2015 do not accurately reflect the content of the letter I received today. The content of the letter is a fabrication, and does not reflect the discussion in the least.
X and I met in the Premier Inn, Place X at 2pm on Monday 10^th August I regarded this to be a usual catch up same as we have most weeks. At no time was I made aware this was a probationary meeting, or a meeting that would lead to dismissal.
X explained we hadn’t worked out and that he would have to let me go. He explained he was giving me a months notice. He gave reasons surrounding this as follows:

1) The NICE guidelines hadn’t approved the use of confocal microscopy. This was disappointing. It meant we couldn’t bring in any revenue. And that he couldn’t really keep me for a year while evidence is collated. And if we were a year further on things might be different. Perhaps in a year’s time...
2) Also that he was trying to do everything on a shoestring, he would do the dermatology roles himself, and keep things ticking over.
3) He was really into the dermatology role over the last six months.

I asked for clarification because I would need to explain this to any potential employers, I asked “is it because I’m crap, or has the role disappeared”. We joked at this point. X said ‘no nothing like that, it’s the role’. I asked if he would provide a reference, and he said yes he would.

I left the meeting after only a few minutes, with the understanding that the role was being closed, and X was taking over the role and this was nothing to do with my proficiency and expectations. I felt it was a financial decision. I explained I understood fully.
I would be very happy to read over the minutes from this meeting to ensure accuracy on both parts. Could you please forward that to me?

So after the meeting I came home upset, and disappointed, but understanding X’s position, especially with regards to NICE and finances.

Then imagine my surprise when I receive a letter today declaring something entirely different in writing, and signed by X.



The letter explains there were high hopes and expectations and now those haven’t been realised? In what way? What issues? And why were they never communicated to me do that I may be able to correct them.

The letter claims careful consideration was given to my responses, yet the conclusion still arose to dismiss me. This makes no logical sense because we talked about NICE guildlines, and I agreed it was disappointing. In fact we had discussed this last week when I came into the office and we had made a plan. I would drive business with the CRA’s, private sector, wound healing facility and that I would go see them. Also we would exhibit in October at the PCDS meeting, and look to be a speaker. I did contact them about this. As well as many other companies. We made plans only a week before this.

And the letter states I was terminated with immediate affect whereby I was told I was given a months notice. These two things are different. I am no longer on notice, I am on pilon.

At the meeting X did ask if I needed the car, he also stated it wasn’t actually needed by the office, I did say I have my own car. X also knows that I am going away tomorrow Friday 14^th, for two weeks and it would be difficult to do much now. I am not trying to block the car and property from being returned, but I am nervous of a laptop, phone and credit card being left in a car, in the street. X asked me to bring to the Tesco, near our meeting point, but that means walking about 2 miles home, and that would hurt my hip too much I now cannot afford to spend money on a taxi. So I think the best thing is that perhaps it stays on my closed drive way until I get back and someone can come and get it. Or X agrees that I leave the valuables in the car and I am not held liable should the worst happen.

So in essence, the letter I have received bears no resemblance to our actual meeting and I find this unacceptable. It is damaging it in a number of ways. This letter is negligent and libellous.

After receiving the letter today I called the PROFESSIONAL COMPANY X, as a member, I have free legal assistance with a solicitor. I have explained all to them, and this is their recommendation.

I have also spoken to X, about this letter. X has now given me a different story again. So we are on version 3 now. X says that I have failed to reach satisfactory standards because I missed two important meetings. Both of these meetings were agreed by X that he would attend.

Meeting one: conference X 7-9^th July Manchester. I arranged to come up on the morning of the 8th July. My husband had arranged to take me to a surprise birthday concert the evening of the 7^th; it would have been a late arrival home. I asked X if I could come up on the morning of the 8^th. He was in agreement. This is therefore not a valid reason for claiming I am below a satisfactory standard.

Meeting two: conference Y Manchester. I had a holiday booked back in January 2015, before I stated with Company X, to Poland. At the time this was booked I was in employment with the NHS. This was booked as leave, some of which was lieu leave as I had accumulated a few days by attending the Primary Care conference a few weeks before I started employment with Company X. X had agreed he would go to this, as I had asked not to. My reason was that I landed at Stanstead airport at midnight, and would need to get to Manchester by car straight after my flight It wouldn’t be very safe to do so. X agreed, and I had a text saying he was happy to go. Again, I don’t see how this can be used as a reason to dismiss me. Both of these meetings were missed with prior agreement.

I explained the letter was inaccurate and unfair, and I could not present this to a potential employer, he agreed this was not a presentable letter. This letter prevents me from being able to obtain employment. X did agree it was ‘fairly inaccurate’, I said I was glad he was in agreement, and that it was more than fairly inaccurate X then changed that to mean the ‘process’ was fairly inaccurate. This letter had been issued by an outsourced HR company, and they use generic wording. That is irrelevant; X has signed this letter to demonstrate agreement. Then, if I am able to gain an offer of employment and X provides a reference, this reference would be based on this letter, and that too would be without fact and without merit. He can choose not to provide a reference, but he cannot lie, and provide a false one.

This letter is damaging. Not only am I left with severe financial hardship. But it also leaves me without the possibility of rectifying this. My son starts school in 3 weeks, his fees are Ł1000 per month, I have had the invoice for the term, and my husband has put this on his credit card so I pay it back Ł1000 each month. And my holiday, I am paying for my Mother, as a treat, as she has cancer, and my for oldest son. I was paying this back out of my pay. Matthew put that on his credit card so you have put me in Ł5600 of debt on my husband’s credit card. Had this letter not been a false one I may have stood a very good chance of being in employment again very soon.

I hold a high reputation within biomedical sciences; this letter makes me look incompetent and unfit to practice. This is a strong reason to see me lose my registration as a XX, and my chartered status. As well as affecting my role as a company director of the PROFESSIONAL COMPANY X. This is more than losing a job. X, and a few others also know I have hip problems, for which, when needed I use a stick and I take morphine daily, I also have a Blue Badge for use on my very worst days. This anxiety you are causing me affects my pain levels considerably. And it will affect my coach travel on my holiday, plus those two weeks where I am unable to look for another job, or where I need to deal with this matter.

I have wondered if the real reason is something else. X knows that I had problems with one of our clients, Dr X He has refused to acknowledge me, or to reply to emails, or to copy me in. We have discussed this, and have talked about sexism in science. I know X has tried to help, by emailing Dr X and explaining I am the dermatology specialist, he should discuss matters with me, but he won’t. X knows I was unhappy about this. X did say he would just deal with him instead. There are clearly cultural differences between myself and some clients, as I am the common dominator here, a woman, is it just easier to remove the problem? This is just discrimination because of my sex. It is unacceptable.

Is it because I know Person X is lying about his HCPC registration? I know I mentioned this to X last week. He is not on the HCPC register, yet he calls himself a biomedical scientist which is legally protected title, which means he is also not an PROFESSIONAL COMPANY X corporate member. And as a director of that charity I am legally bound to report this. But I haven’t. Again, is it easier to remove me because of this?

I am genuinely saddened that this has happened, and I am also very sad that I find myself in the position of having to take legal assistance. I was very happy with Company X and saw a great future. I felt X and I worked really well together, and I thought we were also friends. And the others in the office too.

What I would like to see happen is this dismissal letter removed from my file. Re written with a more accurate reflection of our discussion; role folded due to NICE non-approval issue. Even if it’s a financial issue. The issue of competence needs to be removed, as this is untrue and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Just last week X ordered me a new computer, and we made plans. It goes against all logic.
I would like a written reference that we both agree on, and that I can present up front to potential employers.
I would like to request that Company X allow me to take my holiday in peace and as pain free as possible, and without the need to be finding internet cafes to deal with this issue. I find that unfair, and a bit unreasonable, and painful. If Company X that this is not possible, I will take further instruction from my legal advisors, as I cannot allow this letter and situation to remain in its present format.

Many thanks me

[teaboy2]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

To be honest as there's no discrimination involved there's nothing you can do really since you have had less that 2 years service and where still in probationary period. They could change there reasons time and time a again and it wouldn't change the fact you have no access to tribunal!

They would still have to pay you your months notice in lieu, which is a tax free payment since it would be compensatory from not allowing you to work the months notice they gave you. But legally that's all your entitled too, apart from accrued holiday pay and any wages still to be paid to you!

As for the letter, well you may have a case for defamation, if it had been shown by the employer to a 3rd party, which i hasn't been, so no claim there either. Plus you don't have to show the letter (which is a notice of termination letter, not an employment reference) to prospective employers, you only need to say that you were no longer required by them so your contract was terminated by way of notice! Simply ask him for a positive reference!

[Scigal]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Thanks teaboy, my issue is the lies. I am worried this will then be transferred onto a reference. it will stop me getting another job. Especially in my industry. So if the reference is ok, it should be fine?

I have to say, its shoddy as hell that someone is allowed to make up BS and this be legal.

[teaboy2]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Thanks teaboy, my issue is the lies. I am worried this will then be transferred onto a reference. it will stop me getting another job. Especially in my industry. So if the reference is ok, it should be fine?

I have to say, its shoddy as hell that someone is allowed to make up BS and this be legal.

Well if it were to be put on a reference, then that would indeed amount to libel for which you can sue for damages, but only if that reference is given by the employer directly to an prospective employer!

So best thing to do is go to your employer and say "look, can you please give me a positive written reference so i can show it to future potential employers, and so we can put this whole thing behind us and go our separate ways on amicable terms".

[Scigal]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Thanks,. that's all Id want, for this to be rectified so I can get another job.

[teaboy2]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

Ok - Let us know what they say when you ask for a positive written reference then!

[Scigal]

Re: dismissed, manager gave fair fair reasons, then lied n official paper work.please

hi all,

They gave me a reference, as requested.

I received final pay, was taxed though.

Had the grievance hearing, they didnt uphold ,e complaints though, as one expected really. so thats that. I cant get a job, ive gone from being a chartered professional to a barmaid. good innit. thanks all for your input, I also recommend you to people. xx