Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and more :(

[walkers40]

Any advice very welcome as on 26th June compulsory redundant and since 2 staff (new) set on and can I go for re-instatement and whats the chance of it ? also H & S issues my be to blame !!!

Any other info can be sent if req.

Many thanks in advance

Russ.

[teaboy2]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

I would suggest you post up a full and detailed account so we know precisely whats happened. Plus it would also mean not wasting time (yours) with us having to ask you 100 million questions about whats actually happened, just to get to the bottom of things in regards to where you stand legally!

[walkers40]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

I would suggest you post up a full and detailed account so we know precisely whats happened. Plus it would also mean not wasting time (yours) with us having to ask you 100 million questions about whats actually happened, just to get to the bottom of things in regards to where you stand legally!

O.K will do its a long story but will give as much info in my next post many thanks Russ.

[teaboy2]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

Ok, i will keep an eye out for when you have posted your next post.

[walkers40]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

Ok, i will keep an eye out for when you have posted your next post.

Hi I was employed full time as a plastics and metal multi stage press production engineer in a small manufacturing company 21 staff inc management and a group principal (owner) who lives in Sidney Australia.

On the 1st of May 2015 all staff were summoned to meeting in the canteen where we were each given a letter asking for volunteers for redundancy and each letter had a Ł value for each individual (the figures offered were the same as basic std minimum redundancy pay so no real incentive to take the redundancy offered, so after 7 days all the replies were no from all 21 current staff on payroll.
(Nb this will be relevant later on in my post) a member of staff being 65.5 years old was made to retire in the last week of April 2015 and so him being what was our 22 staff was of course not there on the 1st May canteen meeting.)

With my wife working in HR over the last 9 years she provided me with a small A5 diary and asked me to take any notes on further possible redundancy discussions from 7th May on, (I am now glad I did) as on the 12th May I was summoned to a meeting with 2 managers and asked to sign a form agreeing to a reduction in hours and pay reduction in the near future to help the company's poor order books looking ahead, and to the best of my knowledge all current staff did say they would accept that proposal. (my meeting was 5 minutes duration)

Then 2 days later I was asked to attend another quick meeting at 4.30pm on 14th May 2015 with the same 2 managers where I was told I and 2 other colleagues have been made compulsory redundant (duration 5 mins again) I was then asked to go back to my moulding machine until 5.30pm finish.

I was 13 days short of 7 years service so was told I had 6 weeks notice of redundancy and would work till 26th June 2015 and would get the same pay as previous letter and my P45.

Some 9 days later while I was working my 6 weeks notice the staff member who was made to retire in the last week of April returned to work having had somewhat of a short retirement (4 weeks) saying he had had a meeting with a solicitor and had handed a letter in from them demanding his job back this did get his old job back. !!!

I was on holiday (pre booked) in my 4th week of notice but was not paid on the same day as normal and all other staff had received their wages as normal, when I did go in on the following
Monday I was told the reason I did not get paid as normal was due to a split payment system so I was not getting a full last months pay in case I just left after payday. (I walked out saying I was going to the C.A.B}.also a new staff member was set on (sales) later that week.

When I have over 15 years past sales representative experience. ?

I then did not return to work saying via e.mail what the company was doing was wrong I received for June 2015 pay of Ł722 (net) my normal monthly pay being Ł1,434 (net)

Having had the disagreement over wages and my reluctance to work without pay I did not work in the last 2 weeks of notice.

I was paid my redundancy Ł3,818 on the 29th June by bank transfer. and then later found that one of my colleagues had been paid 10 weeks pay in lieu of notice and their redundancy. (nice).

I have issued a ccj and are waiting for the judgment in due course lack of holiday pay, wages and notice pay for 1st June to the official day of redundancy on the 26th June 2015.

Since that time only back and forth e.mails rather unpleasant regarding ccj and early fruitless ACAS consultation duration (6 weeks) until 10th Aug when I started my claim for unfair redundancy.

The possible issue I think for in my case being selected for compulsory redundancy is or could be my firm stance on H & S issues in the past and questioning poor risk assessments and poor practices on the shop floor.

I could go on and on but that's the outline to my treatment this far ??

Any questions as I look like being in for the long haul on this one and ACAS saying the employer is not worried about any of my ccj and unfair redundancy claims as the company solicitor is happy. (I wonder) !!!!!

Many Thanks in advance and will reply to any questions you may have. ?

Russ.

[judgemental24]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

They seem to be making a mess of this with a sort of consultation process

For a start it is never the employee that is made redundant, it is the job roll/Designation

Have any discussions been made as to redeployment into other areas of the business?

WHAT REASON ARE THEY STATING FOR THE STAFF REDUNDANCY ???.

Economic, Organisational, Technological etc??

Are we talking of a CCJ application in a Civil Court or an Employment Tribunal Claim??

Have you submitted any formal Grievances as to the company grievance procedures??

A point to note, you cannot be made to retire unless capability becomes an issue. They have now done away with the default retirement age at 65

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

Hi I was employed full time as a plastics and metal multi stage press production engineer in a small manufacturing company 21 staff inc management and a group principal (owner) who lives in Sidney Australia.

On the 1st of May 2015 all staff were summoned to meeting in the canteen where we were each given a letter asking for volunteers for redundancy and each letter had a Ł value for each individual (the figures offered were the same as basic std minimum redundancy pay so no real incentive to take the redundancy offered, so after 7 days all the replies were no from all 21 current staff on payroll.
(Nb this will be relevant later on in my post) a member of staff being 65.5 years old was made to retire in the last week of April 2015 and so him being what was our 22 staff was of course not there on the 1st May canteen meeting.)

Some 9 days later while I was working my 6 weeks notice the staff member who was made to retire in the last week of April returned to work having had somewhat of a short retirement (4 weeks) saying he had had a meeting with a solicitor and had handed a letter in from them demanding his job back this did get his old job back. !!!

That goes to show how little that company knows about the law! Mandatory retirement at age 65 was abolished in 2011. There are times when compulsory retirement can still be justified but there have to be good reasons for this. This retired employee must have found out about his rights after getting legal advice which is why the company had to give him his job back, otherwise he could have submitted an age discrimination claim to the ET. If the employers were not aware of an important change in legislation that happened four years ago, what else can they get wrong? :mmph:

I then did not return to work saying via e.mail what the company was doing was wrong I received for June 2015 pay of Ł722 (net) my normal monthly pay being Ł1,434 (net)

Having had the disagreement over wages and my reluctance to work without pay I did not work in the last 2 weeks of notice.

This was probably not the best decision since you could have made a claim for unpaid wages.

I was paid my redundancy Ł3,818 on the 29th June by bank transfer. and then later found that one of my colleagues had been paid 10 weeks pay in lieu of notice and their redundancy. (nice).

I have issued a ccj and are waiting for the judgment in due course lack of holiday pay, wages and notice pay for 1st June to the official day of redundancy on the 26th June 2015.

As you are referring to a CCJ which is a County Court Judgment, is this a separate money claim you submitted via MCOL and not included in your ET claim?

Since that time only back and forth e.mails rather unpleasant regarding ccj

Before issuing a claim, a letter before action should be sent, setting out the details of the breach and what remedy you seek, giving them a period of time (normally 14 days), to respond. If the don't respond or they response is not satisfactory, you go on to issue a claim. There's no need for unpleasantness.

and early fruitless ACAS consultation duration (6 weeks) until 10th Aug when I started my claim for unfair redundancy.

Early conciliation is now mandatory before issuing a claim, however, the process usually doesn't take longer than a month. In a way it's not a bad idea as it gives you a little more time to submit a claim.

The possible issue I think for in my case being selected for compulsory redundancy is or could be my firm stance on H & S issues in the past and questioning poor risk assessments and poor practices on the shop floor.

I could go on and on but that's the outline to my treatment this far ??

Any questions as I look like being in for the long haul on this one and ACAS saying the employer is not worried about any of my ccj and unfair redundancy claims as the company solicitor is happy. (I wonder) !!!!! .

The money claim (CCJ) and ET claim have different timescales. You could have included your claim for unpaid holiday pay and wages in your ET claim, however, ET is likely to take longer than a small claim in the county court. For the money claim, they have only 28 days to submit a defence, provided they acknowledged service in the first place. If they don't, you can request default judgment after 14 days. If they submit a defence you will have 28 days from the date you receive it, to state that you wish to proceed with the claim and you can also submit a response to their defence at this stage.

The whole process does take a few months but probably not as long as the ET process. ET claims are listed for a hearing around four months after your claim is submitted. During this time you'll have to prepare a schedule of loss, get together and disclose any paperwork you intend to rely on and prepare a witness statement. Unlike money claims, don't expect jugment to be passed at the end of the ET hearing, it can take months to get a judgment.

[walkers40]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

Thanks judgmental 24 for your quick reply a few answers to your many questions are

The job roll is I am one of 5 doing the same job so when I asked about a redundancy matrix the managers just said I was the unlucky one because I had more absence than others ! (this is not the case) I have asked now 3 times for absence figures for last 5 years to give a good average calculation and the company refuse to give them. !!!

As far as another role in my redundancy letter it states "we will look a all possible alternatives to compulsory redundancy " and then 4 weeks into my notice the company set on a sales/marketing representative to try to get more sales (poor short term order book) without asking me if I would consider that role (even with my past 15 years as a successful sales rep in the past) ??

3 staff were made redundant to cut costs (poor future orders in pipeline) 3 mths projected forecast.

The ccj is for Ł531 and is owed pay,holiday pay and last 2 weeks ssp having been signed off (stress) the ccj was done with MCOL, this is totally separate from the ACAS early consultation and a new claim for unfair redundancy starting from this week 10th Aug (6 weeks in E.C. with ACAS) ending 7th Aug.

I did request an Appeal meeting on the 18th June in writing before my compulsory redundancy was on the 26th June (8 days to hold an appeal) and the company did not reply to this request. so no appeal was granted.

Thanks again and keep the questions coming and any advice is greatly appreciated as I prepare the unfair redundancy case in the next 3 months time approx according to ACAS,

Thanks Russ.

[judgemental24]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

You will have three months less one day to submit a claim to the Employment Tribunal service from termination of employment contract.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

You will have three months less one day to submit a claim to the Employment Tribunal service from termination of employment contract.

That used to be the case until early conciliation was introduced. Nowadays you have that time to request early conciliation from ACAS, however, the clock stops while the ACAS process is taking place so you could end up with an extra month to submit the claim. :grin:

[judgemental24]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

You will be unable to submit a claim to the Employment Tribunals service until ACAS has given you a certificate number. Famingparrot is correct as that can give you an extra month to hammer things out with the respondent

Remember though that is only for England and Wales. In Northern Ireland it is still called an industrial Tribunal and ACAS plays no part

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Going to tribunal for unfair redundancy due to poor consultation process and mor

You will be unable to submit a claim to the Employment Tribunals service until ACAS has given you a certificate number. Famingparrot is correct as that can give you an extra month to hammer things out with the respondent

Remember though that is only for England and Wales. In Northern Ireland it is still called an industrial Tribunal and ACAS plays no part

Oh, I don't know anything about Northern Ireland, I was referring to England and Wales of course, anyone in NI should disregard with I post about ET process.