Deductions of wages claim

[Aymz]

Unlawful deduction of wages...part 2!

Hello all.

I wrote a few days ago on behalf of my brother in law who was having issues regarding his final pay from previous employers (unlawful deductions).

He sent them a letter as advised, and had an email response today.

The company have repaid one amount of £17.50 which they had deducted for work wear but as my BIL had made the point of employees not paying for PPE they've obviously had a change of heart. How nice of them lol. (Well, I say repaid, whether they have or not is another matter, it wouldn't be the first time they've said they've paid and haven't!).

They are now contacting (apparently) a solicitor in reference to his other queries (missed hours/fuel charge/vehicle wear and tear) and said he will hear from solicitors soon. They have not provided time sheets as was requested.

I'm not sure why the company are getting a solicitor involved - my BIL's case seems straightforward enough (well, as much as any case can be!) BIL is adamant his hours are correct and keeps his own stringent records of dates/times/locations he works in a diary and has done for some years now so could easily prove he has been doing this for a long time. He even does it in his current role even though he is now salaried and does not require timesheets. As for fuel and wear and tear, without rehashing too much of my original post, these have been worked out using current advisory rates and so there shouldn't be a problem with that, neither for fair wear and tear - company have never ndicated in any fashion the vehicle was in any other condition than what he had it in.

He emailed back, stating he was happy to wait for their solicitor, that a quick solution would be beneficial to all, and again requested his time sheets.

In his earlier letter to them he gave them 14 days before he said he would take further action if he was not paid. This is up 20th July. If he has not heard from their solicitor by then, could/should he still take it further or carry on waiting for a response from the solicitor? I'm aware courts would obviously prefer it if agreements could be settled without the need for proceedings, but given they deducted from his wages unlawfully and there doesn't seem to be a resolve happening any time soon should he just go for it, so to speak? But then, not sure what (if anything) their solicitor might say?

he also told me this morning about how he had to go to hospital regarding a cut to his finger which resulted in stitches which wouldn't have happened if he had been provided with gloves to wear. Is there anything to be made from this? He hadn't mentioned it to them in their letter but could it be something to add in any claim in the small claims court when dealing with the deductions?

Hopefully this makes sense. I'm not sure how to post a link to my other thread, so hope you can find it if required!

Thank you

Amy

[Aymz]

Re: Unlawful deduction of wages...part 2!

Can anyone hep? Many thanks

[matt3942]

Re: Unlawful deduction of wages...part 2!

Hi [MENTION=69146]Aymz[/MENTION] - perhaps [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] or [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] can link your two threads so we can get all the information from one location.

- Matt

[Tools]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Threads merged

[Aymz]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Thank you for the merger And apologies to teaboy and joni as I missed their conversation from a few days back.

Just for any clarifiation - He did complain to the company, and it was discussed a few times between both parties. As this has remained unsatisfactory, he then wrote a letter giving them 14 days before (potentially) taking it further. There has been no written authority (either in contract or separately) to deduct monies from wages, so it still stands as unlawful deduction.

I believe small claims is the route he would rather go down, if only for keeping fees down. (having looked at tribunal fees, this would be more or less half of what he is claiming!).

BIL has agreed to pay for petrol that he used during the 'private hire'. He cannot understand the wear and tear. Vehicle was in same condition as when he received it (3 months prior). When you hire a car, you do not pay for wear and tear deemed fair, so why should it be the case here?

Then there is the question of missing hours but again, that would be for them to prove otherwise? (As mentioned previously, he has books and books from employment where he logs his days/times/locations of work).

A better question I should ask perhaps then, is should he continue with taking it further therefore when the 14 days is up, regardless of whether he hears from their solicitor or not if it is a case of the deductions being unlawful regardless, and leave it to their solicitor to defend a claim?

Could he claim for the hospital visit/stitches received as he did not have protective gloves provided at that time, or is that best left? (Was not included in original post as it has subsequently been brought to my attention).

He wishes he hadn't worked for them, alarm bells were ringing before he even started but my BIL and sister are moving from Eastbourne to Devon (where we are) so he needed a job. Didn't think this one would be so consuming!

Again, thanks for your help

Amy

[teaboy2]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Yes he should continue with the claim as a breach of contract claim if he takes it to small claims (like i had suggested precise because of the cost of tribunal fees and the burden of proof being higher on the employer to proof an agreement about wear and tear). Though allow for 7 clear days to pass after the intial 14 days, to allow for postage. As the solicitor may post on or around the date of the 14th day their formal response, so by allowing an extra 7 days your giving them time to send their response.

As for failure to provide protective clothing i.e. gloves, he should report it to the HSE, and yes he can make a claim, though if hes no witnesses, then i wouldn't bother, unless of course it has been recorded in the accident book and he can get hold of a copy of it! Basically its the employers duty to provide protective clothing unless otherwise stated in the contract!

[Aymz]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Just thought I would update as he has spoken to them today.

Despite it being some two weeks since they were first requested, they have not provided timesheets. The answer today from the managing director was "I'll do it when I get round to it".

They stand by their high cost for the private use, saying that as he didn't pay tax on his van, they can charge for wear and tear and tax deductions etc. BIL has spoken to his previous employer (same industry, running for many years now) who stated that they cannot do that in any way.

Despite saying in an email sent Tuesday (from another person) that they were speaking to a solicitor about it all, and said solicitor would get back to him in due course, he was told today during his call with the MD that they've already spoken to a solicitor on Monday, who said that the AFR of £0.14 is rubbish as he took the van before the most recent change to rates. 1) He didn't, and it is easily proved 2) the rate for that class of vehicle was still £0.14 before the most recent update anyway! She also said that he (BIL) didn't need to know what their solicitor said!

She effectively said on the phone that it is being done out of spite as he left them after only 3 months after they'd had to spend a lot of money on him (they tried to get out of paying the recruitment agencies fees by telling them they didn't hire him. When questioned, they said they did hire him but not in the position advertised).

He is going to go ahead with taking it through the small claims court, as the money was unlawfully deducted in the first place. I think he is just worried that he won't be believed!

If you have any further advice, I would love to hear it

Also, before I could mention it might not be worth it with the finger injury, he spoke to a PI solicitor who has taken the case on and seems to think it will be an easy enough case for him. What is interesting is that he informed them at the time and sent pictures to show the injury, and was handed a letter three days later (dated the day of the injury) to state that they have reviewed their H&S policies and would now be providing all employees with gloves to carry out work. Which goes to show I think that a) they provided no gloves at the time the injury occurred and b) company wanted to do some damage limitation! :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[teaboy2]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Just thought I would update as he has spoken to them today.

Despite it being some two weeks since they were first requested, they have not provided timesheets. The answer today from the managing director was "I'll do it when I get round to it".

They stand by their high cost for the private use, saying that as he didn't pay tax on his van, they can charge for wear and tear and tax deductions etc. BIL has spoken to his previous employer (same industry, running for many years now) who stated that they cannot do that in any way.

Despite saying in an email sent Tuesday (from another person) that they were speaking to a solicitor about it all, and said solicitor would get back to him in due course, he was told today during his call with the MD that they've already spoken to a solicitor on Monday, who said that the AFR of £0.14 is rubbish as he took the van before the most recent change to rates. 1) He didn't, and it is easily proved 2) the rate for that class of vehicle was still £0.14 before the most recent update anyway! She also said that he (BIL) didn't need to know what their solicitor said!

She effectively said on the phone that it is being done out of spite as he left them after only 3 months after they'd had to spend a lot of money on him (they tried to get out of paying the recruitment agencies fees by telling them they didn't hire him. When questioned, they said they did hire him but not in the position advertised).

He is going to go ahead with taking it through the small claims court, as the money was unlawfully deducted in the first place. I think he is just worried that he won't be believed!

If you have any further advice, I would love to hear it

Also, before I could mention it might not be worth it with the finger injury, he spoke to a PI solicitor who has taken the case on and seems to think it will be an easy enough case for him. What is interesting is that he informed them at the time and sent pictures to show the injury, and was handed a letter three days later (dated the day of the injury) to state that they have reviewed their H&S policies and would now be providing all employees with gloves to carry out work. Which goes to show I think that a) they provided no gloves at the time the injury occurred and b) company wanted to do some damage limitation! :tinysmile_twink_t2:

Oh yes that bit about the injury and the letter they sent out changes everything regarding the injury as he has written confession from them that they didn't provide gloves i.e. protective clothing at the time the injury occurred and therefore admit to a breach of HS!

He could send a subject access request to obtain his time-sheets and may even be beneficial to request his employment records too, along with all other documents (including emails) containing his name or where a reference to him is made!

[Aymz]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

Oh yes that bit about the injury and the letter they sent out changes everything regarding the injury as he has written confession from them that they didn't provide gloves i.e. protective clothing at the time the injury occurred and therefore admit to a breach of HS!

He could send a subject access request to obtain his time-sheets and may even be beneficial to request his employment records too, along with all other documents (including emails) containing his name or where a reference to him is made!

I did suggest that, but then even that can be a drawn out process so wasn't sure. Might say it again now you've mentioned it as well, and see where it goes. I guess it helps with any claim.

Thank you

[teaboy2]

Re: Deductions of wages claim

With a SAR they have to produce the documents requested within 40 days and not as an when they can be arsed too. Plus if they don't produce them within 40days they are in breach of the data protection act and that can be reported to the information commissioner office who will fine them, plus said breach can be used by your BIL in court and will go against them as a result i.e. unreasonable behavior! And last thing you want a court to be aware of is that you have a track record of acting unreasonably, as it will beg the question as to "Are they acting unreasonable regarding the deductions too". And we all know the answer to that question!