Job offer - lower salary than males

[Mrssweety]

I'm female and I've recently applied for a job in a particular skilled field in which ive worked for over ten years. I was advised that I was successful and made an offer, including a proposed salary. I was aware that they were taking on a few and spoke to two other applicants (men) who also got an offer, their salary being much higher than mine (10-15k). Due to being higher on the scale, their 'perks' are also better and they are positioned better for progression. I know these two guys well, so I know that I have considerably more relevant experience required for this job. When I went back to the company, I asked why I had been set lower than the others and was given a vague explanation about being scored on the interview and being "about risk". There was an assessment day, which I was told I passed well, but no formal interview as such. I advised that I really wanted the job but wasn't happy with the salary offer and being set at a disadvantage before even getting there. The guy got back to me a day later saying that they're not prepared to increase. I pressed him again for a reason why I'm being offered much lower salary than someone of my experience (and from what he himself had quoted me based on my CV before I applied) and he just said that he'd go back to the company and see what he can do. He asked me if I would be prepared to sign a Bond agreement, I asked why and if everyone was being asked this and he said no. That was almost two weeks ago and he's not got back to me. I've emailed him and his reply has been "I'm still working on it".
The job is in England, I'm currently in Scotland but I've spent my whole career in England.
My question is this, can he retract the offer? And if so, how do I deal with the fact that I think I'm being low balled because I'm a female in my 30's? Obviously they can't say it out loud but it appears to be the case as they haven't offered a reasonable explanation.

[Kati]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

[MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] [MENTION=48758]stevemLS[/MENTION] ... any ideas??

[teaboy2]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

I think you do have a claim for sexual discrimination against the company, even though you are not employed by them, but it looks like they refusing to take you on despite taking on the two males on a much higher salary, simply because you asked for equal pay.

The offer they made you was clearly less favorable too that of the two other successful applicants (both males) where your self the only other successful applicant is female and have been offered much lower wage - Ticks the sexual discrimination box for me, as they have clearly treated you less favorably then the male applicants in their offer of employment so long as the roles are the same with comparative duties etc

You should Speak to ACAS and they will be able to guide you through the process (if you get a person at ACAS that has a clue what they are doing).

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Hi Mrssweety,

It can be lawful to pay people different rates where there is a 'genuine material difference'. For example: where people have different qualifications, experience or years of service, or are carrying out different or extra tasks. This is quite common in organisations that have pay scales, i.e. where your salary increases annually and will ultimately match your colleagues' salaries.

When an offer of employment is made and subsequently accepted - regardless of the medium - a contract of employment is created automatically. If the offer is later retracted, the employer has essentially breached that contract. In theory the applicant has a claim for wrongful dismissal and payment in lieu of notice. In practise, this is usually not worth pursuing. Also, the employer will likely argue that you did not accept the offer because of your rejection of the proposed salary.

I suggest you speak with ACAS, Citizens Advice, or an employment solicitor, but don't be surprised if they advise you to put this down to experience.

Regards,

Matt

[Mrssweety]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Thanks for your replies.
The jobs are identical. We all have the same qualifications, I just have more experience in this specific type of work.
Sex discrimination is not something I'd band about lightly. It's a fairly male dominated industry and i'm used to that. But this has really p'd me off. I'm still waiting to hear from them so I'll see how it goes.
Many thanks again for your advice.

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Hi Mrssweety,

If you are satisfied that your would-be colleagues and you have identical qualifications, that you have more relevant experience, and that the offers made to all of you are identical in every way apart from salary, then of course you must pursue it, and I hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction.

Regards,

Matt

[teaboy2]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Thanks for your replies.
The jobs are identical. We all have the same qualifications, I just have more experience in this specific type of work.
Sexual discrimination is not something I'd band about lightly. It's a fairly male dominated industry and i'm used to that. But this has really p'd me off. I'm still waiting to hear from them so I'll see how it goes.
Many thanks again for your advice.

Whilst you may not deem it as sexual discrimination the law however does. Your entitled to equal pay by law when your carrying out identical (or near identical) role to that or a colleague of different gender, where said colleague is paid more than you.

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

I'm sorry to disagree but it's not automatically a case of discrimination because of gender. As I said previously, it is lawful to pay men and women doing equivalent work (or work of equal value) different rates where there is a 'genuine material difference'.

My advice is to wait for the employer to come back to you. If the employer is not able to justify the difference in pay then you should seek professional legal advice.

- Matt

[Mrssweety]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Hi there, there is no difference at all. We will be doing the same training and subsequently the exact same job for at least the first 12 months, there's no way round that. Thereafter, I already have an instructor qualification that I believe at least one of the two men don't.
The company guy got back to me today and was all like "I'm working on it for you but I don't know how long the offer will stay open".

I am beyond fuming. I really want the job but feel like telling them to shove it.

Quick question as the job doesn't start for 3 months. Would I be better waiting until ive finished training before raising the equal pay thing and then subsequent action if they fail to bring me in line? I just feel like if I go all legal now, I'll lose the job and probably get a bit of a reputation in what is quite a small industry.

[teaboy2]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

I'm sorry to disagree but it's not automatically a case of discrimination because of gender. As I said previously, it is lawful to pay men and women doing equivalent work (or work of equal value) different rates where there is a 'genuine material difference'.

My advice is to wait for the employer to come back to you. If the employer is not able to justify the difference in pay then you should seek professional legal advice.

- Matt

They all applied for the same role - I.e. One role x 3 vacancies and they were all accepted. There is no material differences and that was clear from the OP's first post. If their had been differences between the 3 roles then i would have been inclined to have agreed with you, but there are no differences between the roles!

- - - Updated - - -

Hi there, there is no difference at all. We will be doing the same training and subsequently the exact same job for at least the first 12 months, there's no way round that. Thereafter, I already have an instructor qualification that I believe at least one of the two men don't.
The company guy got back to me today and was all like "I'm working on it for you but I don't know how long the offer will stay open".

I am beyond fuming. I really want the job but feel like telling them to shove it.

Quick question as the job doesn't start for 3 months. Would I be better waiting until ive finished training before raising the equal pay thing and then subsequent action if they fail to bring me in line? I just feel like if I go all legal now, I'll lose the job and probably get a bit of a reputation in what is quite a small industry.

Yes you can take the job and do the probationary period and then raise the equal pay matter.

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

It doesn't matter that they applied for the same role - a material factor can be anything (not related to gender) that differentiates one person from another, such as their experience or qualifications.

Several years ago, when a then-colleague of mine and I started the same role, my then-colleague started on a higher salary than me (on the same pay grade) because of her qualifications and experience.

If the offer is still open I would accept it and then consider bringing an equal pay claim in the future,

- Matt

[wales01man]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

They may well withdraw the offer then what action is available for the OP

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

Hi [MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION]

I answered this in my first reply:

"When an offer of employment is made and subsequently accepted - regardless of the medium - a contract of employment is created automatically. If the offer is later retracted, the employer has essentially breached that contract. In theory the applicant has a claim for wrongful dismissal and payment in lieu of notice. In practise, this is usually not worth pursuing. Also, the employer will likely argue that you did not accept the offer because of your rejection of the proposed salary."

In this event, if the OP is satisfied there is no genuine material factor to justify any salary differential, my advice would be to seek professional legal advice with a view to bringing a claim for discrimination.

- Matt

[teaboy2]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

It doesn't matter that they applied for the same role - a material factor can be anything (not related to gender) that differentiates one person from another, such as their experience or qualifications.

Several years ago, when a then-colleague of mine and I started the same role, my then-colleague started on a higher salary than me (on the same pay grade) because of her qualifications and experience.

If the offer is still open I would accept it and then consider bringing an equal pay claim in the future,

- Matt

Matt - i have no wish to get in an argument with you - But the OP had stated from the start she was more experience and had same or more qualifications, and yes it would matter if the role was the same and they were all doing the same duties etc, where two male colleagues of lesser experience are on as much as 15K more per than the OP performing the same tasks - Experience alone, nor would more/higher qualifications, justify that difference in pay rate for the same role that is being performed. They would have to justify how the more experience or more/higher qualification is worth an extra 15K per year compared to the salary of the OP. And when you take into account that most people do not even earn 15K a year, then it simply can not be justified!

I am also fully aware of the law regarding pay grades and pay rates. Yes people can be paid according to experience and qualification but the difference most be justifiable and reasonable, where as 10-15K difference between the two male colleagues and the OP performing the exact or near similar roles is absurd - Especially when she is female and has more experience and is just as qualified or even more qualified than the two males!

[matt3942]

Re: Job offer - lower salary than males

[MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] - I have advised the OP in my previous posts, if there is no genuine material factor, to seek professional legal advice, as this would constitute an equal pay issue. I have tried to be pragmatic with my advice and cover all possible outcomes because I don't know the facts, only what the OP has posted.

- Matt