Gross Misconduct Advice

[Chris87]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

If claire was the investigator of the incident, then she should not have been giving a witness statement as that means she was not impartial to the investigation. So basically the investigation should have been carried out by someone impartial and not a witness to it. If the disciplinary process as a whole or in part is not impartial then its unfair and as such be unfair dismissal! A witness can not be an investigator in the same disciplinary process as it makes the investigation part biased!

Also i'm i right in thinking they went and did a 2nd investigation and now the dirvers log says the alarm wasn't set on the tuesday morning, diespite previous witness statements in the 1st investigation confirming Claire spoke to store staff on the Sunday?

I know you have a new job, but you can still appeal the dismissal. And whilst if your appeal is successful you clearly wouldn't want the job back now you have another one, you would be due compensation for breach of contract as a result of dismissal, which can be agreed by a settlement agreement, otherwise you can take the matter to tribunal. But its totally your choice! Is there anything in terms of misconduct you may have on Claire?!

Yes Claire was the initial investigator who then got interviewed herself between the first and second disciplinary meetings

• She claims that when she went to deactivate the alarm on the Sunday it made a funny noise but she put it down to an incident that happened Saturday morning where a door was opened before the alarm was deactivated; something she said she presumed I hadn't overridden the night before (something that has to be overridden to set the alarm) so to me that's admitting she knew about it. The next sentence of her statement claimed she was curious so she checked the CCTV but when I questioned that they told me she got curious on Tuesday and not Sunday.
• I had a witness who claims she talked to him on the Sunday after the first incident and said he'd made reference to that in his interview but had the documents taken off him when he was going to show them to me (and I refused the chance to see the documents myself) before being suspended, his hours have been increased from 10 to 30 in recent weeks and he has become unwilling to write out a new statement.
• They refused me the right to view the CCTV footage of myself on either occasion or Claire on the morning after the incident (I tried to make the point that if she was seen at the panel for an extended period of time then seen talking to the member of staff it would corroborate my claim that she talked about the alarm being set). They claimed they hadn't used it as evidence against me so they didn't have to show me it.
• The drivers log that states the alarm wasn't set on Sunday night not only wasn't provided as evidence, it wasn't even referenced in the investigation report they wrote up that states it outlines all the evidence being used against me and is the entire reason she claims she only knew about it Tuesday, somehow this magically appeared at the second meeting and when I question it I was ignored.
• Absolutely no evidence was provided to me, for the second meeting I got sent the initial investigation report without any amendments and completely omitting all new evidence/references to new interviews.
• They totally ignored the fact that they broke my confidentiality by leaving the documents in plain view in a public area of the building, I queried it in the first meeting and know the person told them the truth that she read them because they were left on a table but they didn't mention it at all in the second meeting.

So far those are the point's I'm thinking I can argue, I'm appealing on principle; I never once claimed I hadn't made the mistake, I absolutely admit to that but the lies and the fact that they've closed ranks and tried to railroad me really gets to me.

[teaboy2]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

Yes Claire was the initial investigator who then got interviewed herself between the first and second disciplinary meetings

• She claims that when she went to deactivate the alarm on the Sunday it made a funny noise but she put it down to an incident that happened Saturday morning where a door was opened before the alarm was deactivated; something she said she presumed I hadn't overridden the night before (something that has to be overridden to set the alarm) so to me that's admitting she knew about it. The next sentence of her statement claimed she was curious so she checked the CCTV but when I questioned that they told me she got curious on Tuesday and not Sunday.
• I had a witness who claims she talked to him on the Sunday after the first incident and said he'd made reference to that in his interview but had the documents taken off him when he was going to show them to me (and I refused the chance to see the documents myself) before being suspended, his hours have been increased from 10 to 30 in recent weeks and he has become unwilling to write out a new statement.
• They refused me the right to view the CCTV footage of myself on either occasion or Claire on the morning after the incident (I tried to make the point that if she was seen at the panel for an extended period of time then seen talking to the member of staff it would corroborate my claim that she talked about the alarm being set). They claimed they hadn't used it as evidence against me so they didn't have to show me it.
• The drivers log that states the alarm wasn't set on Sunday night not only wasn't provided as evidence, it wasn't even referenced in the investigation report they wrote up that states it outlines all the evidence being used against me and is the entire reason she claims she only knew about it Tuesday, somehow this magically appeared at the second meeting and when I question it I was ignored.
• Absolutely no evidence was provided to me, for the second meeting I got sent the initial investigation report without any amendments and completely omitting all new evidence/references to new interviews.
• They totally ignored the fact that they broke my confidentiality by leaving the documents in plain view in a public area of the building, I queried it in the first meeting and know the person told them the truth that she read them because they were left on a table but they didn't mention it at all in the second meeting.

So far those are the point's I'm thinking I can argue, I'm appealing on principle; I never once claimed I hadn't made the mistake, I absolutely admit to that but the lies and the fact that they've closed ranks and tried to railroad me really gets to me.

If door was opened, and alarm set the previous night, then the alarm would have been blaring and still going off when she arrived, why didn't she checked to find out why the alarm wasn't going off if, like she assumed, it was due to a door being opened?!

What was the reason for the refusal to let you see the CCTV footage? They clearly used it against you, therefore you were entitled to see it.

So the drivers log was not part of the initial investigation, and they also failed to provide you a copy at later stages? Therefore hit you with it at the last hearing?

YOu certainly need to appeal and argue you were not given copies of evidence or allowed to view the CCTV, such evidence would have been vital to your defense against the allegations and proved that Claire had lied. You also need to appeal under the fact the whole disciplinary was biased as the investigation was carried out by Claire who was also a witness to the events. Its should have been carried out by an impartial person not connected to the events in anyway!

[Chris87]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

If door was opened, and alarm set the previous night, then the alarm would have been blaring and still going off when she arrived, why didn't she checked to find out why the alarm wasn't going off if, like she assumed, it was due to a door being opened?!

What was the reason for the refusal to let you see the CCTV footage? They clearly used it against you, therefore you were entitled to see it.

So the drivers log was not part of the initial investigation, and they also failed to provide you a copy at later stages? Therefore hit you with it at the last hearing?

YOu certainly need to appeal and argue you were not given copies of evidence or allowed to view the CCTV, such evidence would have been vital to your defense against the allegations and proved that Claire had lied. You also need to appeal under the fact the whole disciplinary was biased as the investigation was carried out by Claire who was also a witness to the events. Its should have been carried out by an impartial person not connected to the events in anyway!

I'm really lucky I already have another job lined up (just waiting for right to work information to be returned) but I will be seeing it through, I'm currently waiting on the letter confirming my dismissal with instructions on how to appeal (I presume I need to appeal before going to tribunal?) and my Subject Access Request.

Just wanted to point out that they totally skipped over the fact that the investigation notes were left out in the office open for everyone to see despite me raising the issue in the first disciplinary meeting, knowing now that they didn't even interview atleast one of the witness' until the 15th (2 days after my suspension) makes me think people had access to my statement before making theres.

I also wanted to say the justification for dropping my hours while on suspension from 37.5 to 16 (I'm contracted to 7.5 but have been working 37.5 for 4+ years) was that they had a "downturn in sales" - In the same week(s) they transferred someone from a nearby store to do the 37.5 I was working, they posted record profits (Friends have shown me profit reports) and the wages for me while i'm suspended come from head office and not the store so i see that as punishment while suspended.

Last note, I have several friends in the company in other stores, almost all of them had phonecalls with the gossip that I was fired (from managers in the store i was receiving the disciplinary) letting them know i was going to be fired.. nice to know they weren't ever going to take my defence into consideration right?

[teaboy2]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

Get witness statements about the phone calls your friends received, where they were told by the managers you were getting fired, as that would proof the outcome was a predecided outcome making the whole disciplinary process unfair. If you can get those statements we can hit them with them at the appeal hearing and it will support your claim for compensation in a settlement agreement, which would safe you having to go all the way through tribunal. Chances are once they see you have witnesses confirming the outcome had been pre-decided then they wouldn't want the issue aired in tribunal either, not with the bad publicity that may come with it!

Shame you didn't mention about your friends getting phone calls saying you were being sacked earlier, as could have used that to your advantage. But doesn't matter can use it in the appeal still. For now wait till they send you the letter of dismissal!

Don't worry to much about the breach of confidentiality as its not the main part of your claim, it be supporting claim. Though you could report them to the Information Commissioners Office for breach of data protection, as they will investigate and look at the whole process involving the securing of such reports! It will also cost them (won't cost you a penny though) for the pleasure as the ICO charge a fee per investigation i believe! But wait till they come back with your Subject Access Request first as no point making two separate complaints when can complaint about both the confidentiality breach and any potential breach of or failure to comply fully with your Subject Access Request!

[Chris87]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

Still waiting for my letter confirming I've been fired & telling me how to appeal. Seems like it's taking longer than it should!

Also I found out the regional manager has taken a couple of the managers to disciplinary over the incident (I bumped into him and explained what happened and he said he'd take a look at it) so I'm just kind of in limbo, I'll be getting paid my last weeks pay tomorrow but I'm not sure about the notice in liue or my holiday entitlement.

[teaboy2]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

What precisely have the other managers been disciplined for?

[ritemaster]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

Not wanting to hijack this thread but can someone clarify a point for me;

Do you have to be given notice of an investigation meeting? I know you get notice of a disciplinary but I always thought they didn't need to give notice for the initial investigation. I walked into work one day and was called straight into an investigation meeting without any warning.

[teaboy2]

Re: Gross Misconduct Advice

Yes they do, as they also have to give your written notice of your right to be accompanied to both the formal investigation hearing and the disciplinary hearing, along with notice as to reason why your being investigated/disciplined!