Issue with previous employer over wages

[Batista230]

Hi
I have some issues with my last employer over my last pay

1. Deductions from pay for lost goods
If an employee looses company property or damages company property by accident is the employer entitled to deduct the costs from the employees wages?

2. Calculating my Holiday pay
using the gov web site https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement/y
How do I calculate the holiday pay I am due
do I calculate by "days worked per week" on an 8 hr day or "hours worked per week"?
I'm not sure if there was a contract in place

All my wage slips just stated basic pay and did not quote the hours I worked
Now that I have compared them to my time sheets they fall below NMW (national minimum wage)
So this is an issue that needs to be address

Any help would be most appreciated
Thanks

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

anyone please

[vanman]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

Government rules regarding deductions from wages

Under the law, only the following deductions are permitted:

• deductions required by law. e.g. income tax, insurance and government loan payments
• deductions that the employee has explicitly consented to in writing subject to certain conditions
• deductions explicitly mentioned in the employee's contract of employment and agreed to by the employee
• deductions that come about as a result of the violation of any statutes and imposed through disciplinary proceedings
• deductions for any statutory payments that are to be made to a public authority
• deductions incurred as a result of absence from work because of employee participation in strikes and other industrial actions
• deductions which are for the purpose of recovering excess payments of wages or expenses
• deductions that are ordered by a court or through an Employment Tribunal decision

As an additional protection for workers, there is a rule that limits the amount of deductions that the employer is allowed to make. This rule specifically states that even with your explicit permission, deductions must not result in the reduction of your pay to levels below the standard National Minimum Wage amount.


Deduction Agreements

Deduction agreements are agreements where the employee consent to certain deductions being made from his wages. These deductions can only be imposed for agreements that were drafted beforehand.
For example, in cases where there are inventory losses during the subject employees shift, the amount of loss can only be deducted if there was a written agreement before the losses occurred which allow deductions to be made in such cases. The agreement must clearly state also the manner in which the amount to be deducted will be computed.


Procedure to Follow In The Event of Deductions

If you noticed that you have not been paid your full wages during a certain period, the first thing to do is to look at the pay slip as well as your employment contract.
Verify if the deductions are indeed lawful and within the parameters mentioned above.
If this is not the case, the next step would be to take it up with your employer to see if they have a reasonable explanation. The aim here is to be able to solve the problem without resorting to legal measures.
The next step would be to consult with your local union or employees association to see if they can intercede or work out a solution your behalf.
However, if after exhausting all those means and no solution has been reached then your only recourse would be to seek intervention through an Employment Tribunal to recover not only your money but also the charges you may have incurred due to non-receipt of your wages.

One-off deductions
One-off deductions may be voluntary or compulsory and are often linked to termination of employment. Again, they are only lawful if they are defined in your employment contract or if you have given your signed agreement to them. Examples are:

• a charge for damaging company property, e.g. damage to a company car that was caused by your neglect
• a charge for non-return of company property, e.g. clothing or tools, on termination of employment
• failure to work your contractual period of notice, e.g. a week’s pay deducted from your termination payments
• recovery of an advance of expenses
• recovery of holiday pay that has been paid in excess of your entitlement, e.g. you were entitled to two week’s paid holiday up to the date of leaving but you have actually taken three week’s paid holiday. See the FAQ – Can my employer deduct holiday pay from my final wages?

But note that deductions that are punitive in nature are only likely to be lawful if the amount of the penalty is a reasonable reflection of the actual loss to your employer. For example, if you should have given four week’s notice to leave your job and you only gave two week’s notice, and your employer deducted two weeks’ pay from your termination pay, that may not be lawful if the employer’s mmonetary loss caused by you leaving early was less than two week’s pay.
Your employer is also considered to have made a deduction from your wages if you are paid less than you are entitled to be paid under your contract. However, such a deduction would not be treated as unlawful if the underpayment was due only to an error made by the employer in calculating your gross pay.


Holiday entitlement




https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitleme...ts/entitlement

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

thanks for the info
so it looks like (once again) there must be a contract in place to such said deductions
Only thing I can see being an issue is

Deductions which are for the purpose of recovering excess payments of wages or expenses
Expenses being the word!
Do you have a link to that please

The link you provided to holiday pay I have seen before
And I still dont understand how to calculate the holiday pay
The ''working 5 days a week'' tells me how to calculate my holiday pay per day
But if you work one day at 6hr and the next day 15hr
How do you calculate the day?

[des8]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

From : http://www.acas.org.uk/holidaypay

Calculating holiday pay for different working patterns
No matter the working pattern, a worker should still receive holiday pay based on a 'week's normal remuneration'. This usually means their weekly wage but may include allowances or similar payments. Some of these payments might include the situations described earlier on this page, such as commission.

• [*=left]For workers with fixed working hours - If a worker's working hours do not vary, holiday pay would be a week's normal remuneration.
  [*=left]For workers with no normal working hours - If a worker has no normal working hours then their holiday pay would still be a week's normal remuneration but the week's pay is usually calculated by working out the average pay received over the previous 12 weeks in which they were paid.
  [*=left]For shift workers - If a worker works shifts then a week's holiday pay is usually calculated by working out the average number of hours worked in the previous 12 weeks at their average hourly rate.

Payment in lieu of holidays
While workers are in employment, 5.6 weeks of their annual leave (this is the amount all UK workers are statutorily entitled to) must be taken and cannot be 'paid off'. Anything above the statutory allowance may be paid in lieu but this would depend on the terms of the contract.
When a worker's employment is terminated, all outstanding holiday pay that has been accrued but not taken (including the statutory allowance) must be paid.
Further Information
Further information is available from the links at the bottom of the page, but until further clarification is available, employers may wish to seek legal advice based on their individual circumstances. Acas will continue monitoring this situation and will update this page accordingly.
Employers and employees can also sign up for our newsletter to get any further updates: www.acas.org.uk/subscribe and they can also keep an eye out for any updates via Twitter: www.twitter.com/acasorguk.
Acas Helpline Online: FAQs about holiday pay and overtime

• [*=left]What options are available to a worker who has had an underpayment of holiday pay relating to non-guaranteed overtime if they leave or have left their employment?
  [*=left]How far back can claims for underpayment of holiday pay relating to non-guaranteed overtime go?
  [*=left]What is non-guaranteed overtime?

Note: If unable to view on a mobile device or tablet, visit the Helpline Online mobile site.

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

I worked the following for the company and this is ALL the work I have done for them (decimals are in fractions of 100 not 60 mins)

week 1 .67.07hrs over 6 days
week 2. 12.70hrs over 1 day
week 3. 69.60hrs over 6 days
week 4. 64.05hrs over 6 days
week 5. 67.60hrs over 6 days
week 6. 68.43hrs over 6 days
week 7. 70.45hrs over 6 days
week 8. 62.87hrs over 6 days

so how do I work this out please?

[des8]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

Your first step must be to calculate the shortfall in the money you were paid .

IMO (and this is open to correction) as you worked for 6 days a week for 7 of your 8 weeks of employment your holiday pay entitlement is based on 28 days paid holiday per annum.
This will be approx 4.5 days.
You will have to average out what your pay should have been over the 7 weeks and then work out the daily average amount, which will enable you to work out how much they owe you for the five days.

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

To be honest as there was no aggrement Im just going to have to work on NMW of Ł6.50/hr

IMO (and this is open to correction) as you worked for 6 days a week for 7 of your 8 weeks of employment your holiday pay entitlement is based on 28 days paid holiday per annum.
This will be approx 4.5 days.

Q1. What equation did you use to work that out?

Q2. As I said before how do you calculate the day!?
OK we now know its Ł6.50/hr but times how many hours?
then times that by 4.5 days

[des8]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

Ans 1: 8 divided by 52 multiplied by 28

ans 2: take your average pay over the 7 weeks of full time work.
calculate the average daily rate by dividing by 6
multiply by the number of days holiday

At least that's how I would calculate it


Ans 1. should read 7divided...
My maths is approx!

[vanman]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

I worked the following for the company and this is ALL the work I have done for them (decimals are in fractions of 100 not 60 mins)

week 1 .67.07hrs over 6 days
week 2. 12.70hrs over 1 day
week 3. 69.60hrs over 6 days
week 4. 64.05hrs over 6 days
week 5. 67.60hrs over 6 days
week 6. 68.43hrs over 6 days
week 7. 70.45hrs over 6 days
week 8. 62.87hrs over 6 days

so how do I work this out please?

i put you down for 60 hours pw x7 weeks

Calculate holiday entitlement


The statutory entitlement is 49 hours and 42 minutes holiday.

The employer:

• can include bank and public holidays as part of the statutory entitlement
• must not round down the holiday entitlement, but may round it up
• must provide holiday pay during the statutory leave
• can provide more paid holiday - this will be in the employment contract and is called ‘contractual leave entitlement’

Previous answers

Start again

Is the holiday entitlement based on:	hours worked per week	Change answer to "Is the holiday entitlement based on:"
Do you want to work out holiday:	for someone starting and leaving part way through a leave year	Change answer to "Do you want to work out holiday:"
What was the employment start date?	4 August 2014	Change answer to "What was the employment start date?"
What was the employment end date?	26 September 2014	Change answer to "What was the employment end date?"
Number of hours worked per week?	60

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

ans 2: take your average pay over the 7 weeks of full time work.

why 7 weeks and not 8?

[vanman]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

why 7 weeks and not 8?

OK 8 :doggieyes:

Calculate holiday entitlement


The statutory entitlement is 56 hours and 9 minutes holiday.

The employer:

• can include bank and public holidays as part of the statutory entitlement
• must not round down the holiday entitlement, but may round it up
• must provide holiday pay during the statutory leave
• can provide more paid holiday - this will be in the employment contract and is called ‘contractual leave entitlement’

Previous answers

Start again

Is the holiday entitlement based on:	hours worked per week	Change answer to "Is the holiday entitlement based on:"
Do you want to work out holiday:	for someone starting and leaving part way through a leave year	Change answer to "Do you want to work out holiday:"
What was the employment start date?	4 August 2014	Change answer to "What was the employment start date?"
What was the employment end date?	3 October 2014	Change answer to "What was the employment end date?"
Number of hours worked per week?	60	Change

[des8]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

why 7 weeks and not 8?

When calculating average weekly pay one normally uses 12 weeks.
You have only worked 8, one of which was for very limited hours.
IMO that week should be disregarded when calculating average pay, as it was not representative of your working pattern.
In fairness I therefore ignored it when calculating holiday entitlement.
Don't know if that's correct, just seemed reasonable!

[Batista230]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

When calculating average weekly pay one normally uses 12 weeks.
You have only worked 8, one of which was for very limited hours.
IMO that week should be disregarded when calculating average pay, as it was not representative of your working pattern.
In fairness I therefore ignored it when calculating holiday entitlement.
Don't know if that's correct, just seemed reasonable!

That was over the christmas period

I worked the following for the company and this is ALL the work I have done for them (decimals are in fractions of 100 not 60 mins)

week 1 .67.07hrs over 6 days
week 2. 12.70hrs over 1 day
week 3. 69.60hrs over 6 days
week 4. 64.05hrs over 6 days
week 5. 67.60hrs over 6 days
week 6. 68.43hrs over 6 days
week 7. 70.45hrs over 6 days
week 8. 62.87hrs over 6 days

so how do I work this out please?

total hours 482.77 / 8 = 60.35 avarage week

Using this site again
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement/y
I have selected the option "hours worked per week"
And then selected "for someone leaving part way through a leave year"
The next question is "What was the employment end date" my last day of work was on the 14/2/15
The next question is "When does the leave year start" my first day of employment was the 15/12/14
The next question is "Number of hours worked per week" my avarage (see above) was 60.35

The answer given is this
The statutory entitlement is 57 hours and 24 minutes holiday.

Have I got this correct or not?

[des8]

Re: Issue with previous employer over wages

Haven't checked the maths, but method seems correct if you are going to include Xmas week.