Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Yes It was recorded in the book and everyone in the workplace including my supervisor was aware. It is family run business so a very small business. The business consists of two elderly proprietors who have no dealings with the business anymore and two partners (managers) - it only has one site. Yes, I am close with my supervisor and she would tell the truth, as she has already tried to tell the boss what she has done is unfair. Kim and her husband came in infront of others and gave me chocolates for my burns

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

I had blown the whistle on us not having adequate equipment for cooking, and as a result I was left with burns on my hands. I had various conversations with my supervisor where I had sad it was a serious health and safety concern where by the oven was not electrically safe and was essentially 'live' whilst water dripped down the back onto all of our plug sockets. This was only vaguely fed back to my manager, as my supervisor is also afraid of her. The letter that I have been sent states that she is unhappy with my conversations with other members of staff regarding this. Surely I have a case of automatic unfair dismissal - which does not have a 2 yr qualifying period?

When my daughter (who initially started the thread) had worked for her, she had been selling electrical goods from home off as new. She left due to her behaviour. My grievance letter was not concerning me being a whistle blower, but the bullying and victimisation. She bribed me with chocolates not to say anything about the burns and they where joking about me 'suing them'. As a whistleblower, she cannot sack me in the manner that she has regardless of how long I have been there, surely?

This changes things somewhat, it wasn't clear what the grievance was for, i.e. that it was over serious health and safety issues.

To clarify:

• Were both you AND your daughter were sacked from the same workplace?
• WHO raised the grievance? YOU, HER, or BOTH?
• Are we looking at TWO unfair dismissals cases here?

It may worth getting legal advice, there are some sources of free employment advice out there. The CABs could help but the level of knowledge and quality of advice can vary wildly, depending on who you see when and where.

I will try and dig up some places I've contacted in the past and post them up because this sounds like you'll require qualified advice, especially in view of the fact you were not there for two years. Can I ask how long you were working there? Each one of you?

It should be noted that since last year, if you wish to issue an employment tribunal claim you need to go through ACAS early conciliation to start with, only after that step has been taken can you proceed with a claim. You have 3 months from the date of termination to start the process, which is free: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4028

Whilst the early conciliation process is taking place, the 3 month clock stops, so you may get some extra time to file a claim (up to an extra month, depending on when you request early conciliation). The conciliator will not represent you, their role is just to try and reach a settlement with your ex-employers. To that effect, it may be a good idea to think about a reasonable figure before you start the process.

Bear in mind you now have to pay £250 just to submit a claim to the employment tribunal, for each claim. If you submit two separate ones it will be £500. It may be possible to apply for fee remission if you are on income based benefits and have less then £3k worth of capital but it's not guaranteed to succeed. For that reason I'd say it pays to get advice beforehand, not least with regards to the amount of compensation you'd be likely to obtain even if you win. I'll post up more later.

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

This changes things somewhat, it wasn't clear what the grievance was for, i.e. that it was over serious health and safety issues.

To clarify:

• Were both you AND your daughter were sacked from the same workplace?
• WHO raised the grievance? YOU, HER, or BOTH?
• Are we looking at TWO unfair dismissals cases here?

It may worth getting legal advice, there are some sources of free employment advice out there. The CABs could help but the level of knowledge and quality of advice can vary wildly, depending on who you see when and where.

I will try and dig up some places I've contacted in the past and post them up because this sounds like you'll require qualified advice, especially in view of the fact you were not there for two years. Can I ask how long you were working there? Each one of you?

It should be noted that since last year, if you wish to issue an employment tribunal claim you need to go through ACAS early conciliation to start with, only after that step has been taken can you proceed with a claim. You have 3 months from the date of termination to start the process, which is free: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4028

Whilst the early conciliation process is taking place, the 3 month clock stops, so you may get some extra time to file a claim (up to an extra month, depending on when you request early conciliation). The conciliator will not represent you, their role is just to try and reach a settlement with your ex-employers. To that effect, it may be a good idea to think about a reasonable figure before you start the process.

Bear in mind you now have to pay £250 just to submit a claim to the employment tribunal, for each claim. If you submit two separate ones it will be £500. It may be possible to apply for fee remission if you are on income based benefits and have less then £3k worth of capital but it's not guaranteed to succeed. For that reason I'd say it pays to get advice beforehand, not least with regards to the amount of compensation you'd be likely to obtain even if you win. I'll post up more later.

Hello,

thank you for your reply.

My daughter chose to leave after her behaviour and handed in her notice. She handed in her notice period saying she was unhappy with her victimisation and bullying, and that she would work her 4 week notice period as set out in the contract. Two weeks into her notice, she found a letter at work for her from her manager (not handed to her) that stated that that day, would be her last day. Not only had she given her no notice (she had ample opportunity to give this to her on previous days, so that she had notice) but it was breach of contract as she was entitled and willing to work her 4 week notice. My daughter contacted ACAS and on their advise wrote to her notifying her that it was wrongful dismissal (does not required 2yrs) and that she was entitled to 'payment in lieu'. The manager wrote back saying it had been a 'clerical' error on her behalf - and that she would be paid the payment in lieu in due course.

When my daughter handed in her notice, i handed in my grievance letter - this concerned the bullying and victimisation. Not whistleblowing. My grievance letter was given to her on the 25th Jan, and i was ignored and victimised further afterwards. Before my letter was sent i was viciously handed letters when i questioned my holiday, which she had thrown at my chest (assault). The grievance procedure set out in my contract was not followed, i was sacked for my letter (as she stated in my termination letter) and i have now been placed on garden leave. I do not understand why i am on garden leave and have not been paid payment in lieu like my daughter instead? However, i had made mention to my supervisor about the oven and microwave not working properly, and water dripping on the electrics infant of my managers husband, and they just shrugged it off. In my termination letter my manager stated she was not happy with my 'conversations with other members of staff' - i feel as though she is trying to keep my quiet on the matter - as both me and my daughter know to much about health and safety wrong doings.

Just to clarify, my daughter resigned as she felt unable to stay due to her behaviour, and i was sacked after raising a grievance. My daughter was there since May 2014, and i was there from June 2014. We are going to contact ACAS tomorrow again and seek further legal advise, i just wanted to know if we have a case of some kind of dismissal through the whistleblowing aspect of things.

Thank you for all your replies.

[des8]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Following the "burns incident" was the electrical equipment made safe?
Do you have any other health and safety concerns?

Certainly IMO you are being treated incorrectly.

The health and safety of employees is the responsibility of the owners/board of directors.
They have both collective and individual responsibility for health and safety.

I'm not sure what your next step should be, although others here may well be able to advise you.
You could contact ACAS for advice :.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1339 or Phone: 0300 123 1100

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

After i sustained burns, i was bought gloves. Our grill does not work and the screws in it our not in properly (a lot of the cooking equipment is second hand from home!) the oven is faulty and so sometimes will not turn off, one side of the power socket is cracked. She also has minors cooking for her with all of this dangerous equipment. The dishwasher was leaking onto the electrics and was shorting out the power supply in the kitchen. When my daughter worked in the garden centre, she would bring her son's lamps in from home and sell them off as new when she had had them for 5 years - she had bubble tape put on plug sockets as the roof was leaking onto them, but still expected to hoover and place plugs into them! My daughter had to go into the warehouse where there are live mouse traps placed randomly next to and behind and under boxes, with no warning as to where they might be - she had her pencil snapped up by one which snapped it right in half.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

My daughter chose to leave after her behaviour and handed in her notice. She handed in her notice period saying she was unhappy with her victimisation and bullying, and that she would work her 4 week notice period as set out in the contract. Two weeks into her notice, she found a letter at work for her from her manager (not handed to her) that stated that that day, would be her last day. Not only had she given her no notice (she had ample opportunity to give this to her on previous days, so that she had notice) but it was breach of contract as she was entitled and willing to work her 4 week notice. My daughter contacted ACAS and on their advise wrote to her notifying her that it was wrongful dismissal (does not required 2yrs) and that she was entitled to 'payment in lieu'. The manager wrote back saying it had been a 'clerical' error on her behalf - and that she would be paid the payment in lieu in due course.

When my daughter handed in her notice, i handed in my grievance letter - this concerned the bullying and victimisation. Not whistleblowing. My grievance letter was given to her on the 25th Jan, and i was ignored and victimised further afterwards. Before my letter was sent i was viciously handed letters when i questioned my holiday, which she had thrown at my chest (assault). The grievance procedure set out in my contract was not followed, i was sacked for my letter (as she stated in my termination letter) and i have now been placed on garden leave. I do not understand why i am on garden leave and have not been paid payment in lieu like my daughter instead?

Wrongful dismissal is separate from unfair dismissal and relates only to the contractual notice period rather than the reasons for dismissal. It can be remedied by making the appropriate payment. If she receives the money for the remaining 2 weeks, she won't have a further claim for that side of things.

Garden leave means you are still being paid but not required to be at work. When you hand it your notice the employer has the option to do this if they feel more comfortable not having an employee on notice around for whatever reason. As long as they pay you for the notice period in full (4 weeks is it?) it's the same thing as paying you in lieu as you are not required to be at work and still get your money.

However, i had made mention to my supervisor about the oven and microwave not working properly, and water dripping on the electrics infant of my managers husband, and they just shrugged it off. In my termination letter my manager stated she was not happy with my 'conversations with other members of staff' - i feel as though she is trying to keep my quiet on the matter - as both me and my daughter know to much about health and safety wrong doings.

Just to clarify, my daughter resigned as she felt unable to stay due to her behaviour, and i was sacked after raising a grievance. My daughter was there since May 2014, and i was there from June 2014. We are going to contact ACAS tomorrow again and seek further legal advise, i just wanted to know if we have a case of some kind of dismissal through the whistleblowing aspect of things.

Thank you for all your replies.

You could have a case because you raised concerns over health and safety. If your daughter resigned, she'd be looking at constructive dismissal which is rather difficult to establish. Definitely contact ACAS. There are other sources of employment advice out there, I'll try to dig some up. :typing:

[des8]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Ok, so there are still health and safety concerns.
You, as an employee, not only have rights to a safe working place, you have a duty to fellow employees and the public who use these premises to ensure they are safe.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/workers/responsibilities.htm
If, having reported your concerns, you are not satisfied, you should report to the local enforcing authority for Health and Safety.
Address can be found here: www.hse.gov.uk.

Certainly seek advice from ACAS as you intend.

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Wrongful dismissal is separate from unfair dismissal and relates only to the contractual notice period rather than the reasons for dismissal. It can be remedied by making the appropriate payment. If she receives the money for the remaining 2 weeks, she won't have a further claim for that side of things.

Garden leave means you are still being paid but not required to be at work. When you hand it your notice the employer has the option to do this if they feel more comfortable not having an employee on notice around for whatever reason. As long as they pay you for the notice period in full (4 weeks is it?) it's the same thing as paying you in lieu as you are not required to be at work and still get your money.


You could have a case because you raised concerns over health and safety. If your daughter resigned, she'd be looking at constructive dismissal which is rather difficult to establish. Definitely contact ACAS. There are other sources of employment advice out there, I'll try to dig some up. :typing:

Hello,

Even though my daughter felt compelled to leave due to her behaviour, my daughter couldn't go for constructive dismissal as she hasn't been here for 2yrs? Also, i was called into the office and rudely questioned if 'my daughter even wants to work here anymore' as she then went on to show me a text message she had received from my daughter after her first day off sick. (The company is not very formal at all, and my daughter had tried to ring up but as they have very few staff, there was no reply, so she had to text her manager to notify her that she would be off sick). Surely this is breach of confidentiality? Like my daughter has rightly said, just because we are related does not mean she can bring up her issues with my daughter, with me. We are two separate people and worked on different departments. It just seems odd that a manager would approach a situation in this manner.

If my daughter receives her full payment in lieu, then it is only what i have experienced that i will be pursuing legally. I have various witnesses to the health and safety issues and to my burns, that would would most probably act as witnesses. So if i took her to an employment tribunal on the grounds of dismissing a whistleblower and possible negligence(?) would it be likely to succeed?


Many thanks again

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

• This is a place where I got advice and legal representation on an employment matter many years ago, it may not be convenient for you if you are not near London - at the time you had to go there in person - but it's been a long time so things may have changed: http://www.toynbeehall.org.uk/employment-rights
• These people give advice over the phone (no need to be in Chester), you can make contact by email: ProBono-Chester@law.ac.uk
• tribunalservices@my.bpp.com
• YKADVICE@law.ac.uk
• http://www.kent.ac.uk/law/clinic/ - you can contact them by phone
• You should be able to find a free law clinic near you: http://lawworks.org.uk/clinics

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Also, i have read that if you are put on garden leave, without there being a garden leave clause in your contract, that it is breach of contract. Is that true?

[inneedofhelp01]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

• This is a place where I got advice and legal representation on an employment matter many years ago, it may not be convenient for you if you are not near London - at the time you had to go there in person - but it's been a long time so things may have changed: http://www.toynbeehall.org.uk/employment-rights
• These people give advice over the phone (no need to be in Chester), you can make contact by email: ProBono-Chester@law.ac.uk
• tribunalservices@my.bpp.com
• YKADVICE@law.ac.uk
• http://www.kent.ac.uk/law/clinic/ - you can contact them by phone
• You should be able to find a free law clinic near you: http://lawworks.org.uk/clinics

Thank you so much for your help - really appreciated

[Nomoneynoproblem]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Under the old statutory discipline and grievance procedures that was rescinded I believe in 2006, it would have automatically been unfair for dimissing an employee purely for raising a grievance. Currently law stipulates that you will need to be in post 2 yrs before you can contemplate bringing an employment tribunal claim unless you were in post by April 2012 when you only need a year's service.

Regards

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Under the old statutory discipline and grievance procedures that was rescinded I believe in 2006, it would have automatically been unfair for dimissing an employee purely for raising a grievance. Currently law stipulates that you will need to be in post 2 yrs before you can contemplate bringing an employment tribunal claim unless you were in post by April 2012 when you only need a year's service.

This is true, and we've covered this on previous posts, however, the two year period does not apply in certain cases. In this case, serious health & safety concerns were raised by the OPs, there's actually two people involved here, mum and daughter.

[Nomoneynoproblem]

Re: Dismissed for raising a grievance - please help!

Yes, agree with that FlamingParrot....

[Houla]

Re: automatic unfair dismissal / garden leave breach -URGANT

You can't be sacked and on gardening leave. Gardening leave is effectively getting paid to do nothing, usually your notice period. If you get sacked you leave immediately.

Just to clarify a general point for those who may come across this post in the future, this is not so. You can be sacked for a reason other than gross misconduct and placed on garden leave. Gross misconduct justifies summary dismissal (being asked to leave immediately) but other dismissals require the employer to provide the outgoing employee with notice. The employee can be placed on garden leave during this period and such leave is often used where there is a risk of client or staff poaching, misuse of confidential information etc while the employee serves out his or her notice.