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Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

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  • Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

    Hi.
    On Monday 2nd, at work in the works toilets, whilst two colleagues were messing about in the sink, I (thought I) heard a colleague (Person A) make a loud racist remark to his friend (Person B) whilst a black colleague was present. As soon as this 'comment' was made, everybody stopped talking and there was silence whilst the black colleague looked at me and shook his head for a while in what looked like disappointment, washed his hands and then shook his head again, then walked out. I then said to one of the men (Person B who has been talking to Person A at the time) in the toilets something along the lines of 'He shouldn't have said that', to which the man didn't say anything.

    After I walked back to my work station I told the man in the next station to me (Person C) what I thought I heard and that I didn't know what to do and wanted his advice, I also mentioned that they were messing about in the sink. Shortly after that, Person B came up to me and asked what I meant when I had spoken to him in the toilets. I told him what I thought I heard Person A say and asked would Person A had said this. He explained that he didn't hear anything as his ear plugs had been too deep in his hear (even though he had had a whole conversation with Person A) and that he doubted this.

    I did not speak to anyone else about this matter. Unfortunately, whilst everyone was going home that evening, Person C approached Person A to ask him what he had said. Person A then denied any knowledge of having said anything racist and became angry.

    The next morning, Tuesday 3rd, Person C came up to me and explained that he had inadvertently 'dropped me in it'.
    My supervisor then came to speak to me to ask me what had happened and I said three times that what I was about to say was off the record, he agreed, I then told him what had happened.

    A while after this, to attempt to clear it up, I then called my black colleague over and asked him (Without specifying what I thought I had heard) why he had shaken his head at me in the toilets the previous night. He made out that he didn't know what I was talking about and eventually said that he was shaking his head at how Person A and B were 'messing around with the soap in the toilets', which I found slightly odd. I then asked him why there was suddenly a long silence in the toilets and then how everybody had walked out. He said he had no idea why they had stopped talking so suddenly.

    Later that morning, Person A's friend walked up to me (whilst a witness was present and on video camera) in an intimidating manner and repeatedly asked me 'Are you happy with yourself?'.

    I was then asked in to a meeting with my supervisor and a person from HR to explain what had happened. After having spoken to my black colleague and heard his version of what had happened, I took his version as the truth so explained everything that had happened, minus the alleged racist comment, and how my black colleague had shook his head at me in disappointment at how childish Person A and B had been with the soap. I also told how I had spoken to Person C but that I had told him about the soap incident but did not mention that I had discussed the alleged racist comment.

    Later that day, my supervisor came to see me and asked why the statement I had given at the meeting was so different to what I had told him (off the record). I explained that at that time, I had believed my version of events but since my black colleague had come to speak to me, and clarified what had happened, I knew that I must have been mistaken. Later that day I spoke again to my supervisor to tell him that I needed to add to my statement what I had believed before my black colleague had spoken to me.

    On Wednesday night, at a comedy gig with my girlfriend, Person A's friend (the one who had tried to intimidate me at work), walked over to me in a threatening way, getting up close, and kept questioning why I had said what I had said to Person C. I explained that that is what I believed to be the truth. He then had to be pulled away by his friend.

    On Friday I got the opportunity to add to my statement with my supervisor, HR person and my Union rep present. I explained that if I had had to make my original statement on Monday evening then I would have had the viewpoint that something racist was said, or possibly said, but by the time I had to make my statement, my black colleague had explained to me that I was wrong and had misheard and that I took this as the truth so that is why I said what I believed to be the truth.

    My supervisor said that being as all the statements did not fit correctly that, according the work handbook, I was to be suspended on full pay until an investigation has been made. My Union representative looked at the other statements and will be speaking to his Union area manager for further advice.

    To be honest, I feel pretty hard done by but that's beside the point. I have posted this on here to please ask for some thoughts on what I need to do and/or what the likely conclusion to this will be?

    I expect to receive a letter in this morning's post to notify me that I am to attend a disciplinary meeting.

  • #2
    Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

    So the allegedly racist comment did not offend the person of colour nor did they report it nor do they acknowledge your version of events?

    If no one has reported it, let alone the person who would have been offended. Why have you taken it upon yourself to raise the issue? Why have you then gone and changed your version of events ?

    Right now it would appear you are making allegations of racism and those purportedly present are not corroborating with your story anyway.

    Sometimes it really is better to let sleeping dogs lie.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

      Originally posted by krypton View Post
      So the allegedly racist comment did not offend the person of colour nor did they report it nor do they acknowledge your version of events?

      If no one has reported it, let alone the person who would have been offended. Why have you taken it upon yourself to raise the issue? Why have you then gone and changed your version of events ?

      Right now it would appear you are making allegations of racism and those purportedly present are not corroborating with your story anyway.

      Sometimes it really is better to let sleeping dogs lie.
      1. Whether the comment offended the black man is unknown.
      2. 'Why have you taken it upon yourself to raise the issue'?, No, as stated, I simply asked my colleague for advice. I did not 'raise' the issue or report this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

        It seems you have taken it upon yourself and raised an issue which was perhaps not an issue to others that were present..

        Your statements seem to have variated and no one is supporting what you are saying happened

        Allegations of racism are usually serious and you are making accusations without any support or evidence by those you claim were present. It's equally serious to be seen to be making false and unfounded allegations.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

          I read a lot on here, but due to previous problems with people getting upset with my opinions ( and experiences ) I don't post any more.

          However, this post has been bothering me, so I am going to add my part.

          From information I have gained through reading/research and from attending comprehensive diversity training, I really need to add :

          It doesn't matter, if the perceived person ( the black guy ) who should have taken offence, didn't react.

          The fact is, someone present ( the OP ) was offended and to the extent that it played on his mind or conscience, long after the event.

          The scenario in diversity training, is the example of workers having a ( private)risky conversation which is overheard by the gardener, walking past an open window ( for instance ) .

          The workers cannot then claim it was a private conversation and didn't offend either party, it offended someone ( the gardener ) whether it was aimed at them or not.

          Sadly, we have these rules because we can't be relied upon to know whats appropriate or when banter etc is going too far.

          If you have views, keep them for the pub or your own home and please don't put them on face book, even with the privacy settings.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

            Originally posted by cupidstunt View Post
            The scenario in diversity training, is the example of workers having a ( private)risky conversation which is overheard by the gardener, walking past an open window ( for instance ) .

            The workers cannot then claim it was a private conversation and didn't offend either party, it offended someone ( the gardener ) whether it was aimed at them or not
            I'm afraid that is plain nonsense. The gardener is not party to the conversation and what he hears or thinks he hears is not reliable. He is made to look all the more silly when everyone denies anything of that nature was said. Given he has no proof of the conversation, he then subsequently looks like an idiot. Classic foot in mouth syndrome.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

              Originally posted by krypton View Post
              I'm afraid that is plain nonsense. The gardener is not party to the conversation and what he hears or thinks he hears is not reliable. He is made to look all the more silly when everyone denies anything of that nature was said. Given he has no proof of the conversation, he then subsequently looks like an idiot. Classic foot in mouth syndrome.


              I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

              Yes I agree it is nonsense , however you are not approaching this from an equality or diversity angle.

              I also agree, that a private conversation should be that, but from a discipline situation, it doesn't matter if the nature of the conversation was private and/or aimed at the person that heard it. It just has to have offended the person that overheard it.

              As for proof, sadly that is another sore point in the process. Discipline is based on probability, not reasonable doubt.

              Examples being people being found not guilty in a court, but then still found guilty in the discipline process, after.

              Also Face book, where people have all the privacy settings etc and yet someone else who was not the intended recipient, sees the content, is offended by it/ or shares it/ or brings it too work and then the original author is on a discipline.

              Once an employer starts to consider a discipline process, the misdemeanour's look 100 times worse on paper and what was considered light hearted banter/ funny gets blown out of all proportion and it's very difficult to not end up with an unwanted award or sanction.

              I'm not making this up, I have attended compulsory comprehensive diversity training from my employer, a public authority organisation with circa 10,000 employees.

              The input they give to you, certainly gets peoples backs up and raises some heated discussions and the expression "you couldn't even make this up if you tried "

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                Just thought of some thing else, might be relevant.

                Recently in the news, the passenger trying to get on the train and was stopped by the football fans.

                He shrugged it off and forgot about it, putting it down to another racist incident, many of which he had endured in the past.

                However someone else was offended by it, filmed it and later reported it to the police.

                I say similar as this is a legal matter and proof will be required, so not quite the same scenario or apples to apples.

                While I'm certainly not condoning this, from the fans point of view, I expect it was just a little bit funny, they didn't think, it didn't occur to them that the passenger would be late home etc or upset by this, they may even been thinking that they only wanted this part of the train for football fans, I don't know.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                  My understanding is that if you make a comment and another person overhears it and is offended then that comment is deemed to be offensive, so for example, if as a white man I heard someone making comments I felt racist then the person making those comments could be disciplined for those comments. To an extent I think it is political correctness gone mad and an abuse of the rights to freedom of speech however I also have a right to be offended.
                  Where I worked many years ago a good friend frequently called me gay boy which I did not find offensive however if someone else felt it wrong he could have been in trouble.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                    I think the main problem for the OP was the way he dealt with his concerns.
                    He heard (or thought he heard) a racist comment which he found offensive.
                    His concerns should not have been taken to a colleague.
                    He should have approached HR to ask for advice.
                    He was asking for advice on how he should deal with the approaching possible disciplinary.
                    I would suggest he tells the truth, apologises for perhaps not dealing with the situation in the best possible manner.
                    I wonder if the OP has further news for us

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                      Originally posted by jon1965 View Post
                      My understanding is that if you make a comment and another person overhears it and is offended then that comment is deemed to be offensive, so for example, if as a white man I heard someone making comments I felt racist then the person making those comments could be disciplined for those comments. To an extent I think it is political correctness gone mad and an abuse of the rights to freedom of speech however I also have a right to be offended.
                      Where I worked many years ago a good friend frequently called me gay boy which I did not find offensive however if someone else felt it wrong he could have been in trouble.

                      Jon,

                      Yes you are correct.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                        Originally posted by cupidstunt View Post
                        I'm sorry, but you are wrong.

                        Yes I agree it is nonsense , however you are not approaching this from an equality or diversity angle.
                        I'm afraid it really is you who is wrong.

                        Unfortunately you are simply not approaching it from the correct angle. All of which has already been explained by the OP.

                        The OP has tried to report an issue seemingly believing the black guy would have been offended. The black guy has however explained to the OP that the OP had misheard the conversation.

                        Quite frankly after that, the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on.

                        The result for the OP being none of those present are subsequently supporting the OP's version of events to what was said. The OP has then also changed his statement and by doing that has undermined his own credibility of what he had stated earlier to what he claimed was said.

                        The result is it is the OP who has been suspended. This would be correct.

                        You cannot make allegations of racist behaviour if you do not have any evidence to back it up. Furthermore all those present and more directly involved in the conversation deny anything of that nature was actually said. That includes the black guy.

                        It leaves the OP being 'offended' by a conversation that he claims he 'possibly' heard. A statement of events that he has then subsequently changed making him all the more less believable. Quite frankly he has lost all his credibility.

                        You cannot be offended by a conversation you yourself state you 'possibly' heard? No amount of diversity training can allow for that absurdity.

                        The end result is, his statement as it now stands becomes a basis and form of allegation of racist behaviour on his colleagues. If he can't substantiate what he is saying with witnesses or with any evidence then making such unfounded allegations of racism is itself a very serious matter.

                        I'm afraid you simply cannot make such allegations without a credible foundation. It becomes a wrongful accusation.

                        It is correct and probably the reason why he has been suspended. It would also make perfect sense for him to attend a disciplinary to explain his actions.
                        Last edited by krypton; 21st February 2015, 21:47:PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                          Interesting debate, and I can see both sides, I will say this however. I do get sick and tired of people being offended on someone's else's behalf.

                          In this case the op should have approached the person presumed insulted and said are you alright mate,not made mention to a third party, smacks to me ofsomene wanting to appear to be politically correct rather than having genuine concerns for the person involved.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                            I stand corrected, I'm wrong again.

                            I must learn to not get involved, sorry for adding to this post.

                            Andy I agree with what you say, but sadly this world has gone mad.

                            I'll keep out of this now, it getting to a case of " shoot the messenger ".

                            I hope it works out for the OP.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Suspended from work for hearing racist comment - Please help.

                              What EXACTLY is a racist comment something said in jest is different to a malicious comment meant to offend.
                              I was brought up to believe in the saying ( Sticks and stones Etc.) Do we get to a stage where any remark made and heard by anyone is offensive and a cause for action there are far more problems for us all no matter what race religion or colour we are than a couple of word.

                              In this case there might be more to it than just a complaint to someone about a few words if the person who the remark was about was not offended what has it got to do with any one else unless its a constand stream of abuse that's getting out of hand

                              Comment

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