Unfair pay

[tikifish]

Hi have been reading through some of the threads here and looks like some great advise. I hope i can get some help on my situation
June of this year I applied for a new position at work and was successful. Happy days.
However when it came to pay i was not so happy. I had an expectation of where i should be but i was told that at this time the company could not offer more than a 5% pay rise.
My company have a grading system after some time of asking the salary range for my new grade my suspicions have been confirmed and i am being vastly underpaid. I am 8k below the minimum range of my new salary grade.
My question is if a company uses a grading system should they be forced to pay their staff somewhere within the min and max of the range?
When my manager told me the grade range and realised what i was currently earning he said that it is not right and he would look into it straight away. However a week later when he got back to me to discuss he advised that nothing could be done at this time and the company cannot afford to jump me up in 1 go. They should be able to get me upto the correct amount over the next 2 years with small increments. However i still could not get this in writing and they say this is not guaranteed, the first of these incriments is supposed to be April 2015 but i feel like there will be yet more excuses why they cannot pay.
Can they do this and are there any laws being broken here?
They set the job with this grade so they should pay!

Any advise would be truly appreciated.

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair pay

Did you get a new contract stating the pay grade when you accepted the new position? Also have you a copy of the hand book that explains the pay grades and amounts per grade? If not, get a copy ASAP!

And post up here what your contract states about your pay grade and what the hand book states! Because if your contract states you should be on grade X and X amount per hour/month/year then that is your contractual wage and they would be in breach of section 13 of the employment rights act 1996 for unlawful deduction/withholding of monies due to you. They would, if that is the case, as i suspect it is, have to back date your pay to the day you started the new position.

But until you post up what your contract states and what the hand book also states, i can not say for certain nor can i offer any concrete advice until you have posted that information up!

Alternatively have you a copy of the job advertisement, if so, what did that state - Though it is irrelevant if you do not have a copy of the advertisement or their written offer/confirmation letter regarding the the position (including with pay details) to you!

[tikifish]

Re: Unfair pay

Hi Teaboy2 thanks for the help here.
I actually still only have my original contract stating my salary when i joined the company. I had some pay rises since then which were confirmed on company letterhead.
When i got the new role i did not get a new contract as they said the terms would be the same however what i did get is a letter offering the job which stated my new job grade and that i would be given a 5% payrise to £xxx amount (which is the amount i am disputing). I had got the salary range for my new grade from my manager after requesting a few times upon which i have on email. They were reluctant to give me this
The pay ranges for these grades are not published in any handbooks
The job advertisement did not state a salary or grade i found this out once i got the job.

Do you think i have anything to go on have a letter stating my new grade and a separate email outlining the salary range for this grade?
Surely if they set the scale then they have to pay?

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair pay

Hi Teaboy2 thanks for the help here.
I actually still only have my original contract stating my salary when i joined the company. I had some pay rises since then which were confirmed on company letterhead.
When i got the new role i did not get a new contract as they said the terms would be the same however what i did get is a letter offering the job which stated my new job grade and that i would be given a 5% payrise to £xxx amount (which is the amount i am disputing). I had got the salary range for my new grade from my manager after requesting a few times upon which i have on email. They were reluctant to give me this
The pay ranges for these grades are not published in any handbooks
The job advertisement did not state a salary or grade i found this out once i got the job.

Do you think i have anything to go on have a letter stating my new grade and a separate email outlining the salary range for this grade?
Surely if they set the scale then they have to pay?

Hmm, problem is when they confirmed the role to you along with the pay you would get in writing, your acceptence of the new position is also an acceptence of those terms. Pay is a core term of a contract of employment, so if the letter stated you'd get x amount in pay and you still accepted the role, then contractually thats all your entitled too. Though legally you may be entitled to more, subject to fairness and equality - Which means we need to start looking at what others are on who are in the same or similar job role as you. So how many other people are filling the same or similar position as you? and how many of them are being paid inline with the pay grade respective for the roles?

The other problem is, if the grades are not published in the hand book, or mentioned in your contract, then they are discretionary, and likely paid on experience and years of service, but if the pay grade was mentioned in a email to you, then post up a copy of the email please minus personal and company details. Off course 8K is a lot of money to loose out on, to some its 7-8months wage.

[tikifish]

Re: Unfair pay

Sounds like they might have got me here.

Here is the relevant section of my offer letter unfortunately for me they did state the salary but also they have stated the grade

"Further to your recent interviews I now have pleasure in confirming your new promotion to Sales Support Engineerwith effect from 1st July 2014. The salary grade for this position is SG21
As a result of your promotion , your salary will be increated to £xxxxxxxx per annum with effect from this date.

Please note that all other terms and conditions remain unchanged"



Below is a copy paste of the email I received from my manager. From bottom to top he had asked the HR team for the range of the grade SG21 which was forwarded to him then forwarded to me for discussion. I have removed names, company signatures and figures. Do you think there is anything I can do?? My role is a new one so I have no-one to compare to. However I have had a discussion with a colleague who works in a different team who is in the same situation. They seem to be doing this to everyone who takes on a new role and only paying a small percentage rise. It defeats the purpose of having the grading system.
The grading system is quite new here, we are a medium sized busniess which was aquired by a large worldwide corporation so we have therefore taken on their job titles, salary grades etc... Again appreciate the advise so far



Yes got some info. My telephone isn't working at the moment. Let's talk Friday

Regards

Sent from mobile phone


On 19 Nov 2014, at 17:22, wrote:
Hi ,
Have you had any more feedback on this issue?

Best Regards
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
From:
Sent: 03 November 2014 08:08
To:
Subject: Fwd: sG21

Talk to you later

Regards


Sent from mobile device

Begin forwarded message:

From:
Date: 3 November 2014 07:54:28 GMT
To:
Subject: RE: sG21
Hi

The range for SG 21 is:

Min Mid Max
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

Thanks
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

From:
Sent: 31 October 2014 20:43
To:
Subject: sG21

Hi ,

Can you provide me with the low,
Mid and High ranges for UK SG21 please ?

Regards

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair pay

Sounds like they might have got me here.

Here is the relevant section of my offer letter unfortunately for me they did state the salary but also they have stated the grade

"Further to your recent interviews I now have pleasure in confirming your new promotion to Sales Support Engineerwith effect from 1st July 2014. The salary grade for this position is SG21
As a result of your promotion , your salary will be increated to £xxxxxxxx per annum with effect from this date.

Please note that all other terms and conditions remain unchanged"



Below is a copy paste of the email I received from my manager. From bottom to top he had asked the HR team for the range of the grade SG21 which was forwarded to him then forwarded to me for discussion. I have removed names, company signatures and figures. Do you think there is anything I can do?? My role is a new one so I have no-one to compare to. However I have had a discussion with a colleague who works in a different team who is in the same situation. They seem to be doing this to everyone who takes on a new role and only paying a small percentage rise. It defeats the purpose of having the grading system.
The grading system is quite new here, we are a medium sized busniess which was aquired by a large worldwide corporation so we have therefore taken on their job titles, salary grades etc... Again appreciate the advise so far



Yes got some info. My telephone isn't working at the moment. Let's talk Friday

Regards

Sent from mobile phone


On 19 Nov 2014, at 17:22, wrote:
Hi ,
Have you had any more feedback on this issue?

Best Regards
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
From:
Sent: 03 November 2014 08:08
To:
Subject: Fwd: sG21

Talk to you later

Regards


Sent from mobile device

Begin forwarded message:

From:
Date: 3 November 2014 07:54:28 GMT
To:
Subject: RE: sG21
Hi

The range for SG 21 is:

Min Mid Max
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

Thanks
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

From:
Sent: 31 October 2014 20:43
To:
Subject: sG21

Hi ,

Can you provide me with the low,
Mid and High ranges for UK SG21 please ?

Regards

How long ago was it that the company was taken over? As there maybe some confusion as to the pay grades. Basically the new employer may pay different rates to that of what the rates were prior to them taking over, and you might be getting told outdated old information!

[tikifish]

Re: Unfair pay

Hi teaboy2, the company was purchased around 3.5 years ago. They introduced their grading system to us around 1 to 1.5 years ago. All of the jobs in our company needed to be matched to the ones in our new owners and a grade would be allocated to each role. I know that some people had been given pay rises as when they were allocated to a grade the current salary was below the range and they had to be "bumped up"

[teaboy2]

Re: Unfair pay

If the say in your role is suppose to be x grade at x rate, then that is what they are meant to pay you, unless you have agreed to the role on a lesser rate!