Discretion with sick pay

[PIKEO]

Hi there, hope you’re all well, I’m within hope of some advice, my human resource manager is refusing to pay me for my absence. He is insisting that during a telephone conversation, he requested me to ring him direct to inform him if I was not able to go back to work, I did not ring him as I do not recall this instruction be giving and instead of ringing him I followed the companies protocol of contacting the agency whom communicate the details of absence to my employer. Now because of this he is saying he is not releasing my wages as I did not follow his so called instruction of contacting him. He argued that he instructed this quite clearly and that when he stated this over the phone that somebody was there to prove his communication, he also went on to add that it was my responsibility to carry out this communication with him direct. Now before my return to work I had several appointments with the company’s physio and the physio and I came to agreement of my return to work on light duties as my injury was at a low pain level at this point. But after this meeting my pain levels of the injury had risen once again and that is when I followed protocol of contacting the agency. When I told the HR manager he said that the physio told him I was able to return, then that is what he expected me to do, and I would have, if my pain level stayed the same, he was basically telling me that he did not believe that my pain levels had risen and that I should of returned. He told me that we will talk further about this on Thursday 11th to resolve this matter, I requested this to be sooner due to the seriousness of the complication, but he denied my request due to the fact he did not see fit to recall my frontline manager in to discuss this out of working hours .

What are your views on this situation and if so, how do a act, I have contacted local solicitors but still awaiting them returning the call. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and I hope to hear from someone soon,
kind regards Paul

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

How long have you worked for this company as an agency worker?

Regarding sick pay, you are entitled to Statutory Sick Pay Regardless!

Also regarding your illness/injury - Was it caused by a work related accident?

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Hi there, thanks for your prompt reply, I have been working for them for over 8 years as a core employee not agency, sorry for misleading you into thinking I am agency worker, I meant to say that my employer uses an agency to forward our absence which we have to communicate to instead of contacting our managers like we used to, it changed sometime last year . As for my injury, I have been diagnosed with repetitive strain injury by my doctors, which happened on the 16^th October at work which was reported the following day and have been suffering with it since.

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Hi there, thanks for your prompt reply, I have been working for them for over 8 years as a core employee not agency, sorry for misleading you into thinking I am agency worker, I meant to say that my employer uses an agency to forward our absence which we have to communicate to instead of contacting our managers like we used to, it changed sometime last year . As for my injury, I have been diagnosed with repetitive strain injury by my doctors, which happened on the 16^th October at work which was reported the following day and have been suffering with it since.

Right, in that case your entitled to satutory sick pay regardless. You followed company rules letting the agency know you were absence. The injury is work rated and they have a duty of care towards you, in ensuring you recover and reasonable adjustments are made. They are in breach of the employment rights act 1996 by not paying you statutory sick pay, but not only that, they are in breach of contract and as such give you grounds to sue at ET for constructive dismissal and as your injured, for breach of the equality act 2010 for discriminating against a person with a physical disability (albeit temporary one).

Put in a formal greviance letter against the HR manager and send it to their superior evenif that's the company Director(s). And put at the end "Payment of statutory Sick Pay IS NOT discretionary and up to the employer. It is a legal obligation that MUST BE PAID to employees that are entitled to it!"

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Hiya Teaboy, I was just about to write out a letter of grievance yesterday and a colleague advised against it as from his experience with his other colleagues that went down the same route had been dismissed and when taken to tribunal he never stood a chance. He says with the company paying sick scheme with is full pay from day one then that they have been known to argue that they have paid plenty towards the persons been on sick. Also he says that these would not be doing the above if they thought they would be in the wrong, so I have not written the letter and have been trying to get hold of my HR manager for two days, left plenty of messages and no return calls have been made.

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Hiya Teaboy, I was just about to write out a letter of grievance yesterday and a colleague advised against it as from his experience with his other colleagues that went down the same route had been dismissed and when taken to tribunal he never stood a chance. He says with the company paying sick scheme with is full pay from day one then that they have been known to argue that they have paid plenty towards the persons been on sick. Also he says that these would not be doing the above if they thought they would be in the wrong, so I have not written the letter and have been trying to get hold of my HR manager for two days, left plenty of messages and no return calls have been made.

How long have you been on sick?

What does your contract actually state about duration of company sick pay scheme and how much? (Please copy exactly what your contract states about sick pay scheme).

How much did they actually pay you per week/month?

You;d be surprised just how many employers (including reputable companies) act unlawfully in matters of employment laws and rights!

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

I have had 6 spells of 26 days this year, which includes a back injury at home in March and with this RSI at work pushed me to 16% sickness level. The company normally pays from day one with full pay in which I have had no issues within the past. I have been in contact with ACAS and they said maybe it is the wrong way to go about putting a grievance in against the manager as this can upset the working relations with the company, and instead has suggested to write a formal letter highlighting the issues and how much money is owed to me and when I expect the money to be in my account, which I feel that Friday the 19^th is enough time for them to pay this amount. I’m going to include in my letter that I have been told of disbelief in my sickness as he has taken word of the physio over my NHS doctor that is was not fit for work, which I had also followed company protocol of contacting work of my absence.

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

The contract states
In the event that you are absent from work due to correctly certified sickness or industrial injury will receive Company Sick Pay, in addition to Statutory Sick Pay, totalling your contractual rate of pay, subject to the following time limits;

Service	Entitlement to Company Sick Pay
1 year, but less than 5 years	6 weeks
5 years, but less than 10 years	10 weeks Paid in any 12 months
10 years, but less than 15 years	14 weeks Cumulative period
15 years, but less than 20 years	16
20 years and over	20 weeks

Payment of Company Sick Pay is discretionary and is dependent upon you reporting your absence promptly, keeping the Company properly informed of your progress, and cooperating fully with the Company to ensure a return to work at the earliest opportunity.
No payment will be made for sickness for the first 2 x12 hour shifts of sickness absence.
You will, at the Company’s request, need to submit to an examination by a medical practitioner nominated by the Company.
Industrial Injuries
Payment of Company Sick Pay will be made for the first 24 hours of absence (including hospital treatment) resulting from an industrial injury, properly reported and recorded according to Company procedures. In the event of a claim for compensation being made against the Company, any Company Sick Pay paid will be deducted from any settlement.
In the event that the accident investigation showed that you were substantially responsible for your own injury, then payment for the first 24 hours of absence will not apply.

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

I was due to a disciplinary hearing at 4:45am on my last night shift on the 6th with my line manager, but due to my communication that I have had a referral made by my NHS doctor for January 2015, he postponed the disciplinary hearing until I have had my hospital referral, in the letter he says “it seems to be logical to await the outcome of the referral before proceeding with the disciplinary hearing. If however the referral is delayed we may decide to pursue the hearing as originally planned.

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

The contract states
In the event that you are absent from work due to correctly certified sickness or industrial injury will receive Company Sick Pay, in addition to Statutory Sick Pay, totalling your contractual rate of pay, subject to the following time limits;

Service	Entitlement to Company Sick Pay
1 year, but less than 5 years	6 weeks
5 years, but less than 10 years	10 weeks Paid in any 12 months
10 years, but less than 15 years	14 weeks Cumulative period
15 years, but less than 20 years	16
20 years and over	20 weeks

Payment of Company Sick Pay is discretionary and is dependent upon you reporting your absence promptly, keeping the Company properly informed of your progress, and cooperating fully with the Company to ensure a return to work at the earliest opportunity.
No payment will be made for sickness for the first 2 x12 hour shifts of sickness absence.
You will, at the Company’s request, need to submit to an examination by a medical practitioner nominated by the Company.
Industrial Injuries
Payment of Company Sick Pay will be made for the first 24 hours of absence (including hospital treatment) resulting from an industrial injury, properly reported and recorded according to Company procedures. In the event of a claim for compensation being made against the Company, any Company Sick Pay paid will be deducted from any settlement.
In the event that the accident investigation showed that you were substantially responsible for your own injury, then payment for the first 24 hours of absence will not apply.

Right so you have worked there 8 years so were entitled to company sick pay scheme for 10 weeks in addition to Satutory Sick - However Company Sick Pay Schemes are discretionary so the most your entitled to (by law) is £87.55 per week for 26 weeks in total (after that you need to claim employment and support allowance via DWP)!

So how many weeks have you been paid statutory sick pay, and how many of those weeks was statutory sick pay paid in addition to your company sick pay?

However your injury is deemed an industrial injury for which they state a separate clause for, where there is no mention of it being a discretionary payment!

I was due to a disciplinary hearing at 4:45am on my last night shift on the 6th with my line manager, but due to my communication that I have had a referral made by my NHS doctor for January 2015, he postponed the disciplinary hearing until I have had my hospital referral, in the letter he says “it seems to be logical to await the outcome of the referral before proceeding with the disciplinary hearing. If however the referral is delayed we may decide to pursue the hearing as originally planned.

Disciplinary for what??

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

The disciplinary is for the time off I have had with the sick, the Company state when the absence is 5% or above then disciplinary action may be taken, and as I am currently 16% then that is the reason of this hearing

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

So they are classing an Industrial Injury as standard absence?

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Yeah, it must be what they are trying to do, how should I write this formal letter, and what should I include?

[teaboy2]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

Hang on something doesn't add up here!

You said you had 6 periods of absence at 26 days? That over 365 is 58.4% rate of absence??

[PIKEO]

Re: Discretion with sick pay

This is the report I was given on my last shift, the white areas are my shifts of 4, it shows my absence of my back injury in March and more recently my work related injury October 16th, as you can see I never missed any work directly after the injury as I was on light duties after I reported it the next day (17th), and after several sessions with the physio we agreed to keep on these restrictions as my condition was stable but was possible it could flare back up if pushed, then my manager received the notes from the physio and apperantly the report differed from what we agreed and was taken off light duties and that is when my injury increased to inflame and left me no choice to fall on the sick for the 3 blocks of 4 in November , and this is why I have triggered a disciplinary.



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