Police medical appeal board

[Andy301965]

In 2010 I was subject to a campaign of bullying by my Supervisors within the Police. I took out an ET but due to my deteriorating mental health I settled with the force and signed a COT3 in 2012. My understanding of the COT3 was that I could not use any of the allegations in any further actions against the Police( fair enough I would say)
My health did not improve and I was sectioned twice in the following year and subsequently I left the Police with a medical pension in 2013. I applied for an injury pension saying I believed the injury to my mental health was as a result of me being on duty and the actions by the police caused the injuries.
The injury pension is a ' no fault' pension so I do not have to prove the actions took place just that I suffered from stress etc whilst at work which then caused the mental illness.
The Police have now objected to my referring to the incidents at the appeal board due to the agreement of the COT3. I find this difficult to link to my appeal as I am not seeking an action against the Police but wanting to show a pattern of behaviour which ultimately led to me being sat covered in petrol whilst flicking a lighter. Also the Police are saying that what they did to me was lawful as I am subject to obeying lawful orders..obviously some things were done to me which do not come anywhere near to being a lawful order but amounted to sheer vindictiveness.
I have wrote back saying I do not believe I am taking any action against the Police and that it is unjust and unfair to try to stop me using the incidents if they are submitting to the appeal that their actions were lawful. I must be allowed to mention the incidents if I am to counter this argument. However I would agree to not mentioning the ET if they agree that I was injured whilst at work due to the actions they took

Thoughts anyone.?

[teaboy2]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Was there a confidentiallity clause in the COT3 or simply a clause that neither party may make a claim against another?

It might help is you could type up the actual wording of the COT3 in full minus person details! Don't worry, if they are watching this thread, which is not likely, they can not take any action if names etc are not revealed!

[Andy301965]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Thanks for replying. Unfortunately I moved house and for the life of me I cannot find the COT3. However below is a quote from their email which I am guessing is a lift from the original COT3. As I said above I am not actually taking an 'action' against the force but attempting to enhance my pension and referring to what I believe caused the injury. It is a 'no fault' pension..so if for example, I fell in the kitchen at work and say broke my leg so badly that I had to retire, it matters not why I fell..just that I did whilst on duty. masroll:

MR ..........."agreed that no action would be pursued in reliance on any of the allegations within the ET claim against any party connected to the Force."

[Andy301965]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Hi again..you may also be able to answer this and it is related to the above. After returning to work after all the problems I had great difficulty in managing the change of role I was given and basically I was so far gone mentally that I was a shadow of the competent man I was. I had gone from investigating murders and rapes to not being able to cope with a phone ringing..how mad is that?
Anyway things got so bad that I was placed in a crisis bed rather than Hospital. Whilst at the crisis centre I made a serious attempt on my life but was luckily saved.
I stayed at the centre for 4 days and whilst there I contacted my boss and informed him I would use some of my holiday entitlement so my absence did not go on my sickness record as this would eventually begin a process off an Unsatisfactory Performance Procedure. (Lots of cops do this)
upon my release I was sent to see the force Dr who said I was a high risk and was not fit for duty and that I would have to significantly improve before I could return. This report was sent to my managers. However on a Friday afternoon ( which was a day off and not holiday leave) I got a call to say I was to report at my HQ on Monday to see my big boss as regards work. I went to work on the Monday somewhat nervous etc.
I spoke to my boss who said I was now working Monday to Friday 9x5 from Hq in a new role. I could not use my holiday entitlement to cover sickness as it's not allowed but if I kept going sick I would be UPP'd and eventually sacked. They had seen what the Dr had wrote but they were choosing to ignore it as it's only advice. I was to use the rest of that day to get my uniform and equipment from where I had worked for the last 16yrs and that's that.
i should point out that at this stage I did have a recognisable illness subject of DDA.

Anyway i I was totally distraught after this. I was being removed from my friends who I relied on at work etc..but I have to obey orders.
The next morning I was found on a beach covered in petrol playing with a lighter. I was subsequently jumped on by six cops who I knew( no problems with that as they saved my life and were so brave as I was trying to light myself up as I got struck with a baton) This was the first time I was sectioned.

My question is can they just ignore medical advice.? I'm sure if a bit more support and compassion had been forthcoming I would have returned to work a week or so later( using my holidays) I never recovered from this. I never tried to take this to an ET as I was pensioned off 10months later although had to contend with a 50% reduction in wages.

[teaboy2]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Thanks for replying. Unfortunately I moved house and for the life of me I cannot find the COT3. However below is a quote from their email which I am guessing is a lift from the original COT3. As I said above I am not actually taking an 'action' against the force but attempting to enhance my pension and referring to what I believe caused the injury. It is a 'no fault' pension..so if for example, I fell in the kitchen at work and say broke my leg so badly that I had to retire, it matters not why I fell..just that I did whilst on duty. masroll:

MR ..........."agreed that no action would be pursued in reliance on any of the allegations within the ET claim against any party connected to the Force."

Right ideally, we will need a copy of the COT3 - Best bet is to ask ACAS for a copy (as i doubt the force would send you true copy).

As for your last post. Unfortunately it wouldn't be worth taking any action in relation to that, even though the Force was legally in the wrong. Plus as you mentioned the DDA which was rescinded and replaced by the equality act 2010 your about 4 years to late to take any action regarding breaches of the DDA to the employment tribunal. There is a 3 month and 1 day from the last course of action time limit for making such claims to the ET!

[Andy301965]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Thanks again..I'll get onto ACAS.

[teaboy2]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Ok

I have asked Bluebottle to have a look at your thread. Hes an ex police officer himself, so he may have more knowledge on the ins and outs, that could help you.

[seduraed]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Ask Acas and the force for a copy each for your records just to see what each comes up with .

[bluebottle]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Hi Andy,

There are number of us on LB who are ex-job, including myself.

Although I have been out of the job now for sometime, I am aware that bullying within the police service has reached endemic levels. Certainly, serving officers I have spoken to are very concerned about it and have noticed behavioural changes in colleagues who have attended certain courses and gone from being easy-going and placid to aggressive and intolerant. Some have even reported dark and suicidal thoughts after attending these courses.

To answer your question about your managers ignoring OH advice, this may well amount to a breach of health and safety at work legislation as well as potentially invalidating Employer's Liability Insurance. It is an offence to not have a valid Certificate of Employer's Liability Insurance in force and carries a maximum penalty of a fine not exceeding £70,000.

[Andy301965]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Hi again...after several call to ACAS they were not able to help. Ultimately if I break the agreement then let them sue me for the monies given to me. However I think they will find it difficult to prove they suffered a loss. I really do not see how they will be able to say their actions were lawful and I have to sit in silence..just does not make sense.

[Andy301965]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. You being ex job will certainly know how the bosses go on and circle the wagons. I have never gone after them for anything else as I was just so glad to get out with a pension. However having got out I have quickly realised how far the pension goes. I lost a good job as a d/sgt, had to sell my house when I was reduced to half pay, lost my long term partner and eventually my mind. This recent bombshell of trying to hide behind the COT3 shows me how much they care about their own. 26yrs service counts for nothing these days

[teaboy2]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Hi Andy,

There are number of us on LB who are ex-job, including myself.

Although I have been out of the job now for sometime, I am aware that bullying within the police service has reached endemic levels. Certainly, serving officers I have spoken to are very concerned about it and have noticed behavioural changes in colleagues who have attended certain courses and gone from being easy-going and placid to aggressive and intolerant. Some have even reported dark and suicidal thoughts after attending these courses.

To answer your question about your managers ignoring OH advice, this may well amount to a breach of health and safety at work legislation as well as potentially invalidating Employer's Liability Insurance. It is an offence to not have a valid Certificate of Employer's Liability Insurance in force and carries a maximum penalty of a fine not exceeding £70,000.

Can you clear some space in the PM inbox as its full, so not able to send you a PM mate!

[bluebottle]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Some bosses were okay, but some were total a-holes when I was in the job. Were you granted an Enhanced Ill-Health Retirement Pension which is, normally, index-linked? You should also have received a gratuity on retirement.

I doubt they could use a confidentiality clause to conceal anything of a criminal nature and it would be for them to prove any order they gave you was lawful in the circumstances.

In order to try and understand why you were subjected to bullying and harassment, did you -

a. come across something untoward or "not quite right" that scared the crap out of bosses; and/or
b. were you being asked to do things which you, yourself, knew wasn't exactly 100% kosher?

I am sure you have already been told this, but what happened to you was and is not your fault in any way. I, myself, suffered a psychotic episode some years ago, but I have come out of it a better person and you will, too, given time and the right support.

[bluebottle]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Can you clear some space in the PM inbox as its full, so not able to send you a PM mate!

Will do. Got a broom? mashappy:

[bluebottle]

Re: Police medical appeal board

Space now available in my PM Inbox, TB.