Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

[nutrance]

Hi all,

I am a van driver (below 3.5t).

The simple part is that I am being hauled into the office tomorrow because I failed to deliver two sinks to Dagenham and Basildon in Essex on Friday.

In the morning at Derby I was given my route of three deliveries which were as follows (Derby - Brighton - Dagenham - Basildon - Derby). I explained after consulting my route planner that I would be bringing the two sinks back as I would not have time to deliver them, I was leaving at 0830 and was supposed to finish at 1700.

I only delivered the drop in Brighton as it was the biggest load and it tool me four hours to get there (traffic on M42) and I had to wait 1 hour 10 minutes before they would unload my pallets (I was there an hour and half). So I decided to go straight back to Derby. I didnt make it back to Derby until 1845 due to traffic on the M25, M40 and M42. My boss rang me on the way back (Bluetooth) and had a go at me because I didnt deliver these two sinks to Essex, which would have meant I wouldnt have been back until around 2030. He just said I should have delivered them.

I didn't have my 1 hour lunch break and I didnt have my 2 x half hour breaks.....we never get them other wise we would not ever be back before 6pm. Yes we stop to nip to the loo and pick a coffee up but this amounts to about 2 x 10 mins breaks.

Our usual routes are driving from Derby into central London for 4-6 drops which takes until around 6-7pm unless we take deleveries back.

My question is can I be done for not doing these 2 drops, I got back late anyway and they knew I wouldnt be able to complete the route as I told them before i went. I normally end up driving for around 13 -14 hours some days without breaks and I am sure that is in breach of GB Domestic hours but I dont know if I can use that in my defence or not????

The trouble my employer just looks at the mileage of the routes, they do not consider factors such as our breaks, traffic and time spent waiting to be unloaded. We all have mentioned this but they keep saying 'ah well'......

Sorry if it sounds cinfusing, its hard to explain...cheers

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

If someone fancies working the route out like i did in a route planner and then adding on the hour and half waiting time and 2 hrs of breaks and compensating traffic on the M1, M425, M40 and M42 to see what I mean......Derby to Brighton to Dagenham to Basildon to Derby......From 0830 to 1700!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

I live just north of derby and we've been to Brighton a few times, its bloody long drive and I'd never go there and back in one day, let alone nip to Basildon and Dagenham on the same day too, especially on a Friday round the M25 either way. I think 20:30 is a bit optimistic too, I don't know exactly where Basildon is, but Essex we come back on the M11, A14 and M1 ...... on a Friday night would be hell ...... But I'm not a driver.

I'll flag your post up for [MENTION=7]Tools[/MENTION] as he knows the working time and driving regs.

[Kati]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

If someone fancies working the route out like i did in a route planner and then adding on the hour and half waiting time and 2 hrs of breaks and compensating traffic on the M1, M425, M40 and M42 to see what I mean......Derby to Brighton to Dagenham to Basildon to Derby......From 0830 to 1700!!

Without compensating for traffic (or even adding your waiting times etc...) it would take you 8hrs 12mins to travel that route.
Starting at 08:30, you wouldn't have finished (even then) until 16:42!
Adding your waiting times and statutory breaks would make it 20:12 (still not compensating for traffic)
:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

This is what I have tried explaining to them, and on Friday afternoon the traffic is a nightmare as all the week away business men are going home home from London! Surely they can't discipline me for it as technically they are asking me to break gb domestic rules?

[Kati]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

The Gov.uk drivers hours overview might be worth looking at

GB Domestic rules

GB Domestic rules apply if:

• the maximum permissible weight of your vehicle is under 3.5 tonnes
• your journey is entirely in the UK

GB Domestic rules also apply in the UK if your vehicle is exempt from EU rules.

8. GB Domestic rules

The GB Domestic drivers’ hours rules apply to most passenger-carrying vehicles and goods vehicles that don’t have to follow the EU rules.
GB Domestic rules apply in Great Britain - there are separate rules in Northern Ireland.

Goods vehicles

Daily driving limit

You must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day. The daily driving limit applies to time spent at the wheel actually driving on a public road. Off-road driving counts as duty time.

Duty time

If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.

Daily duty limit

You must not be on duty for more than 11 hours in any working day. This limit doesn’t apply on any working day when you don’t drive.
You must record your hours on a weekly record sheet or on a tachograph.

Passenger-carrying vehicles

Breaks and continuous driving

After 5.5 hours of driving you must take a break of at least 30 minutes when you must be able to rest and take refreshment.
Or, within any period of 8.5 hours, you must take at least 45 minutes in breaks. Additionally, you must have a break of at least 30 minutes at the end of this period, unless it’s the end of the working day.
Length of working day (‘spreadover’)

You must not work more than 16 hours between the times of starting and finishing work - including non driving work and any times when you’re off duty.
Duty time

If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.
Daily rest periods

You must take a rest of 10 hours between 2 working days. This can be reduced to 8.5 hours up to 3 times a week.
Fortnightly rest periods

Every 2 weeks you must take at least one period of 24 hours off duty.
A fixed week is from 00:00am on Monday to 23:59pm on the next Sunday.

Exemptions

The GB Domestic rules don’t apply if:

• you don’t drive on the public road, eg if you drive as part of work in road maintenance, quarrying, construction work, civil engineering works
• you drive for less than 4 hours in any day

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

Well I definitely spend more than 10 hours driving, more than 11 hours on duty and go without breaks at least 3/4 days a week! I know I could have breaks but if I did, some nights I wouldn't get home until 2100-2130 as I live half hour drive from the depot! I got two young kids as well so I hardly see them during the week! My employer doesn't acknowledge the hours.... we even said they should come out with us for a few days, but they refuse! I wonder why!

[vanman]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

were you using a sat nav that has a GPS Logger

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...763#post491763

[vanman]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

deleted

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

Hi van man
No, but I have a tracker app on my phone which records where and when I have been, it drops a pin every 60 seconds......

[Kati]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

No, but I have a tracker app on my phone which records where and when I have been, it drops a pin every 60 seconds......

does it save the journeys so you can go back to them?

[vanman]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

Hi van man
No, but I have a tracker app on my phone which records where and when I have been, it drops a pin every 60 seconds......

cool if you can recover the data and keep it you can use that in your defence
are the vans tracked by firm i
i drive 7,5 i can tell you if you had hit the dartford crossing at 16.00 on a friday
you would have not got to Dagenham untill gone 17.30 what time did the
Dagenham delivery close
or were they private address

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

The dagenham site would have finished at four I would have crossed factors around 3, but jct 28 to 1 on m25 was reported as delayed. So I would have had to have gone through London and blackwall tunnel and London is mostly bad anyway! The vans are not tracked but my GPS tracker can go back 72 hours: ) Normally I have 4-8 drops in central London running down the m1, my employer always says that the drops are only a few miles apart! I keep saying that 2 miles in London can take 30 mind sometimes! The most annoying thing is that we have a depot in barking, yet we have deliver down there.....I delivered half a mile from the depot in barking the other week!

[nutrance]

Re: Driving and GB Domestic Regulations (Employment)

Factors is dartford lol