Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing?

[Hellothanks]

Hello, I had my pre-hearing (case management discussion) meeting for unfair dismissal and race/religious discrimination on last Thursday. I made two errors which are killing me inside!

1)
Basically, I wanted the interm CEO to be named as one of the respondents. My Acas registration had only the organisation name as that's what the form had asked for, but because I had made it clear throughout i.e. appeal stage and ET1 form that my claim was against the interim CEO, the judge at the pre-hearing said it was up to his discretion to allow her to be named as a second respondent but then he told me that if i did include her name and she was found guilty i.e. i win then she won't be liable for remedy and then he added a few more points which i can't remember now but at that moment they sounded like he was saying the organisation will also won't be liable because in effect I am taking her as an individual to the tribunal. So, I went along and agreed with the judge for the interim CEO to be dismissed from being named. But I found out now that if the interim CEO was named as a respondent alongside the organisation then the organisation would still be liable for remedy.

2)
I wanted to add victimisation (as I didn't have this specified on the ET1 form). at the pre hearing I said: I would like to add victimisation. This is because I had complained of being treated differently and unfairly prior to dismissal and had informed of my intention to seek legal advice. I believe these complaints amounted to a protected act. Alternatively, I believe that as a result of the complaints Ms ..... had a belief that I would be making a protected act. However, because I failed to answer judge's question: what is protected act? He did not allow this to be added. I did know what protected act was but then my mind just went blank. Upon remembering though I did ask him if he would allow me a chance to answer the question but he declined saying he had made his mind.


Do anyone think/know if i can submit a request either prior to final hearing (February) or at the final hearing for the interim CEO to be named as a respondent? Or I have lost my chance?

Also, do anyone think/know if i can submit a request either prior to final hearing (February) or at the final hearing for 'victimisation' to be added to my claim? Or have a I lost my chance?


Thank you for time and help

[stevemLS]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Were you not happy with the answers you got when you asked the same question last week?

You can apply to add a party under Rule 34 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/1/made although once again I don't see that you particularly gain anything by adding the CEO.

I don't see why you couldn't apply for permission to vary your ET1 but there is no guarantee you would get it at this stage and you may find yourself liable for the costs of the Respondent in amending their response.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello Steve, thank you for time and reply. Did I ask the same question previously? Sorry if i did and so for repeating, possibly I did but like my error at the pre-hearing, i forgot what's a protected act was when the judge asked me even though i knew it!

re: CEO, the reason why i wanted her added is she committed the wrong doings against me not the org. yes, although I need someone to be liable for remedy, if not her be the organisation, but i still wanted her name to be added, it feels like part of the justice, hope you know what i mean.

[stevemLS]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...discrimination

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello Steve, I have read the relevant section of the link you provided, thanks. However, my question was now that the pre-hearing is over and the judge has decided to dismiss the interim ceo as a respondent, partly because I agreed with him, can I now make a requested to the tribunal for them to reconsider and add her in?

Thank you

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

thanks for sending my initial post link, Steve, i did believe you but just forgot!

thank you,

[stevemLS]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

From post 1, you agreed that the CEO should not be a respondent. I don't think you can now change your mind.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

yes, I think I wont be allowed, I was just hoping someone would tell me there was a way ..... I feel my case is meaningless now, because having her named was important to me, my fault for losing myself at the pre-hearing, Will be happy if my experience does help someone out there - join individuals, if you want to, organisations would still be liable! so you won't lose out! at least you wont be regretting like me!

Thank you,

[teaboy2]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hellothanks

Your claim is against the company (or sole proprietor for non limited companies) when it comes to Employment Tribunals, not against another employee/director of a company, which is what the CEO is!

You stand to make no gain in terms of your case against by naming the CEO as a respondent. So forget about naming her full stop, as its a dead end course and is not going to benefit your claim. If anything you'd been seen as being vexatious by adding the CEO as claimant, when she can not even be held liable, despite the "Judge" telling you so and even basically giving you same advice i am here!

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello teaboy2, thank you for your time and thoughts. It's that CEO as the most senior member misused her power and position against me. she is the one who wronged me. I know she wouldn't be liable, which i feel is unfair, but by naming her I think I would have gained some psychological justice by her being named, and it would have felt better i.e. it would have felt like i was taking HER to the tribunal but now it feels like I am taking the 'organisation' and NOT her to the tribunal. I was there for about 6 years and have nothing against the 'organisation'. So, my fight feels a little purposeless now because, as stated above, it feels like I am NOT taking her to the tribunal.

Thank you

[nemesis45]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

tea boy is correct here the CEO is the Companies representative and it is the company that you must pursue as the company is responsible for their "representatives " actions.
If you wish to pursue the CEO you will I think have to do this via the count court as a claim for damages for what ever you believe she has done to you.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello nemesis45, thank you for your time and thoughts. I have spoken to tribunal and they said if i want the Judge to reconsider to add ceo as a respondent then i should write in, but, the problem is tribunal will then speak to respondent's side and if they oppose and the judge decides to dismiss my request based on the respondent's objection then that will be very embarrassing for me and they will be laughing!

Re: county court, do i do that after the final hearing and if my case wins? because i am thinking if i win then that will prove that she dismissed me unfairly and discriminated against me.

Thank you

[teaboy2]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello teaboy2, thank you for your time and thoughts. It's that CEO as the most senior member misused her power and position against me. she is the one who wronged me. I know she wouldn't be liable, which i feel is unfair, but by naming her I think I would have gained some psychological justice by her being named, and it would have felt better i.e. it would have felt like i was taking HER to the tribunal but now it feels like I am taking the 'organisation' and NOT her to the tribunal. I was there for about 6 years and have nothing against the 'organisation'. So, my fight feels a little purposeless now because, as stated above, it feels like I am NOT taking her to the tribunal.

Thank you

I know you feel the need for vengence, but Employment Tribunals can only take action against employers. It is outside the Employment Tribunals remit (so to speak) to decide on claims between 1 employee against another employee. Such claims are thrown out, usually at pre-hearing as they have no chance of success, purely because Employment Tribunals can not act on such claims.

In your case, your claim only got through the hearing as you named the company as a respondent, that claim will be heard at tribunal, the claim against the CEO will be thrown out at the same time as your claim against the company is heard. You will then likely have to pay the CEO's personal legal costs for defending against your claim against her. And if she is well off like a lot of CEO's are then its likely her legal costs will be in thousands as some solicitors/barristers charge a £1,000 plus per hour. So even if you won your claim against the company, the monetary reward you get, probably won't cover what you'd have to pay for the CEO's legal costs. So despite feeling like your getting some revenge on her by naming her, doing so will likely cost you dearly and you'll still come out worse off as a result!

You will have already named the CEO and what she had done in your claim against the employer anyway! And should the company be found to have acted unlawfully or unfairly, in which case you win. The CEO will have to answer to the board of directors and the shareholders, and could even be forced to resign!

[teaboy2]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

Hello nemesis45, thank you for your time and thoughts. I have spoken to tribunal and they said if i want the Judge to reconsider to add ceo as a respondent then i should write in, but, the problem is tribunal will then speak to respondent's side and if they oppose and the judge decides to dismiss my request based on the respondent's objection then that will be very embarrassing for me and they will be laughing!

Re: county court, do i do that after the final hearing and if my case wins? because i am thinking if i win then that will prove that she dismissed me unfairly and discriminated against me. - It be after employment tribunal. But you can't take her to county court for discrimination as the company will have been held liable for her acts of discrimination against you, should you win at tribunal!

Thank you

They won't be laughing at all, you still got claim against them (employer) so they'll still have to answer to that. If anything you'd be doing them a favor by naming the CEO as a respondent given my advice in post above and the outcome of claim against CEO should you go ahead with naming her as a respondent.

[krypton]

Re: Can a Judge's decision at case management meetings be challenged post pre-hearing

I know she wouldn't be liable, which i feel is unfair, but by naming her I think I would have gained some psychological justice by her being named, and it would have felt better i.e. it would have felt like i was taking HER to the tribunal but now it feels like I am taking the 'organisation' and NOT her to the tribunal. I was there for about 6 years and have nothing against the 'organisation'. So, my fight feels a little purposeless now because, as stated above, it feels like I am NOT taking her to the tribunal.

Thank you

It's never wise to be motivated by vengeance in cases such as these.

Ultimately she is/was a representative of the company and you are taking the company to task. Do not feel overly sentimental about taking the company to tribunal. It's business....If I was you concentrate on the facts and leave the emotions out of it.

By trying to name her now it will seem you are disgruntled and motivated by personal issues alone. It will likely detract from your claims. If I was you I would leave be. The judge did you a favour. The company will not be laughing having to attend tribunal. They may well do if you try to name her now.

If you win the case the CEO can be considerably tarnished at the tribunal as to render their internal position commercially untenable going forward, leave it at that.