overpaid

[moy]

hi
My Daughter left next in june had her last payslip in July and has recieved her P45. Now Late september she has recieved a letter saying she owes £131 in overpayment due to holiday. Surely this should have been sorted out in the last pay slip. Where does she stand?

[des8]

Re: overpaid

Hi and welcome.

My understanding is that where one has left employment where an overpayment has occurred it will depend on what the contract of employment states as to what action the ex employer can take. Some contracts state the amount owed becomes a civil debt. If there is no contractual provision to treat the alleged overpayment as a civil debt, the ex employer may have difficulty enforcing repayment without cooperation of the ex employee.
I'm sure one of our employment specialists will be along soon with more (and possibly different) advice

[Johnboy007]

Re: overpaid

Hi,


This situation is where your Daughter's former employer is unable to make a deduction from wages, and some months or years later, the employer, or even a debt collector, contacts her, claiming that she owes money that was overpaid in the former employment?
Much will depend on what was stated in the employment contract. Some contracts state that, if an employee leaves the employment owing the employer money that could not be recovered from final wages, the amount owed becomes a civil debt. If there is no contractual provision to treat the alleged overpayment as a civil debt, the employer may have considerable difficulty in enforcing payment if you refuse to cooperate. In either situation, you should obtain advice from a solicitor, or the Citizens Advice Bureau or another local organisation providing advice on legal, employment or tax matters.
Write to the employer stating that the money has been spent in good faith, and that she is not financially, in any position to be able to repay any alleged overpayment.
Hopefully they may just write it off.

[moy]

Re: overpaid

thanks for the replies - trying to find a copy of the Next contract but since my daughter has moved back from uni we can not find it. Will try and reing Next HR tomorrow. It is annoying that the first contact with Next is a letter after her last wages and P45 saying pay in 14 days to Capital Commercial collections!!!

[des8]

Re: overpaid

As a matter of interest, could you post up the letter (redacted of course) received from CCC?
Interesting to see the exact basis of their claim, as they require payment to themselves and not Next.
If this was a simple straight forward error by Next, one would expect Next to make direct contact in the first instance.

PS don't ring Next.... everything in writing from here on

[moy]

Re: overpaid

i can scan tomorrow Des8.

[moy]

Re: overpaid

headed paper Next
As aresult of leaving Next Retail ltd and after taking into account final salary adjustements we must inform you that unfortunately you have been overpaid and have recieved monies that you are not entitled to. Please accept our apology for this overpayment.
The overpayment represents a value of £131.14. An explanation in a form of copy payslips is attached (your final payslip and your payslip after leaving) showing you the salary you received and what hours were processed after the cut off, showing a deflicit against your final salary.
Please Note Basic pay is paid from the 15th of the previous month to the 14th of the current month. Absense and overtime are paid for periods between cut off dates.
I would be grateful if you could give this matter your urgent attention and arrange for the repayment of the amount within the next 14 days. We need to be reimbursed for this overpaymeny as soon as possible so that we are able to provide the inland Revenue with accurate details of your earnings whitst in our employment.
CCC are processing repayments for us Then payment options
Should you wish to discuss any aspect of the repayment for the above amount please call JK CCC
Yours Sincerely LB Payroll dept Next Retail Ltd (computer signature)

[moy]

Re: overpaid

as I stated orginally she left next in June about the 18th - she got a payslip in July followed by her P45.
this letter was 3 moths after leaving.
Surely this should have been sorted with the final payslip.
also they state that they need it to inform the Inland Revenue but they have already issued the P45,
I did call CCC on receipt of this and they were not helpful and could not say why it took so long - A bit blunt really but did say they could accept a monthly payment.

[Johnboy007]

Re: overpaid

Hi,
Get your daughter to write to NEXT and explain.....
That as a result of NEXT having left it for so long before claiming any overpayment, the money has been spent in good faith.
Consequently, your daughter is not in a financial position to be able to repay it.
JB

[wales01man]

Re: overpaid

Disgusting this from next big hundreds or thousands allegedly owed maybe chase it but this sum?,Write a letter to next informing them it was their mistake the money she received she believed was correct .
Unless she works out her own wages and deductions why should she pay for their inability to do things right , as for a debt collector getting involved I can only think of 2 words to them.

[des8]

Re: overpaid

Agree with both above.
Overpayments should be claimed by employer as soon as discovered, They should have discovered this when P45 drawn up.
The fact they have to advise Inland Revenue they have made a mistake does not automatically mean your daughter has to repay anything (they are trying to use a scare tactic)
To get technical with them the defence Jb mentions (Overpayment not realised as such as it was due to employers error and employee thought it was rightfully theirs. Employee then then spent overpayment and it cannot be recovered. It would be more onerous and unjust for the employee to repay the money than for the employer to forgo it.) is referred to as
"change of position" defence.

[moy]

Re: overpaid

We have sent this to Next as a first step
Thank you for your letter dated xxx referring to an alleged overpayment of wages during my. employment with Next plc.


I was very surprised to receive your letter and after taking legal advice I should like to request a copy of my signed contract of employment plus copies of any policies and / or procedures relevant to this alleged overpayment. For instance overtime, Bank holidays, Holiday accrual etc.

Could you also supply me with copies of my payslips from 5 April 2014 to my final salary.#

[moy]

Re: overpaid

I asked CCC for an email address for their contact at Next and this was their reply

Thanks for your email. Your comments are noted.

However, please note that we are your point of contact for Next and ask you to direct your queries care of our office.
We will, of course, forward any comments/queries to our client.

Regards
Capitol Commercial Collections Ltd
We would rather deal with next - Don't know if this is a normal thing

[des8]

Re: overpaid

Ignore CCC (and any charges they might be adding to her "debt")

Write , if you feel it is necessary to get to the bottom of this, directly to Next and ask them for a full analysis of how this alleged debt is calculated and request a detailed breakdown (not a summary) of the figures involved and how they came about.

You can also tell them that you will not be corresponding at all with any third party they have chosen to employ and certainly will not be paying any third party fees.

Do this all in writing (send signed for) and request a reply within 14 days.


CCC are solely a debt collection agency. From their website I see they work for their "clients" on a no win no fee basis, and apparently don't do court.
No worries with them then

[Johnboy007]

Re: overpaid

Absolutely ignore CCC.........
Your daughter had not or has now, any contract with them, so she is not obliged to deal with them in any way.
Do not write to CCC, as by doing so, it may imply that your daughter wishes to contract with them.
Deal only with NEXT, and do what Des states, tell NEXT that you will only deal with them and not any third party.
As the debt is at the moment only alleged. No costs can be added by them.
Just tell them that they had left it too late, and the money was spent in good faith.
I doubt NEXT will do anything...

CCC are saying that they are your contact point, in order to be able to add costs.
However, legally they cannot make your daughter contact them in any way.