sacked on hear say

[bootlegger1974]

I've been sacked by my employers of nearly 5 years,for refusal to carry out reasonable instructions,gross insubordination and foul abusive language,its the shift managers word against mine ,i suggest there is a manegment whitchhunt against me das i have two iminent claims for accidents atr work,last month my employers tried to get me to sign a contact saying that Id agreed to not make a claim against them if i recieved full payment for trime off,I dont have legal cover but will get money off family if my case is string-ive just appealed the matter-do i have a case?

[Johnboy007]

Re: sacked on hear say

We need more information..........
What was it that you supposed to have done, and in what circumstances?
Did you have a disciplinary hearing?
Did you have someone with you at any meeting?
Was you suspended?
We really do need answers to be able to assist.
What accidents did you have?
Who's fault were they?

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

yes i had a hearing,i represented myself and informed them id be taking an audio device(iphone ) to recird the minutes for my reference,they suspended my on full pay ,in regards to accidents i broke a toe when something fell on it oct 2012 ,poor ppe was the reason on interview back to work,my second accident was when wire struck me in the face in 16 june 2014 ,this is the incident that they tried to get me to sign a contract heres what it said,following your accident at work16th june 2014 you have agreed with ...........not to pursue a claim against company providing you are paid for the time off following the accident ,please sign and return.
there was no conversation to make this agreemenet and i refused to sign it.
i deny the accusations made against me and find it strange who a man can be sacked on hear say alone.the companys minutes are brief to say the least
they accuse me of using foul language towards a shift manager which i strongly deny

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

ive been sacked for gross misconduct but i suggest they out to get me in regards to accidents and the fact that i voiced my disaproval about the letter they asked me to sign regarding a conversation that taken place-impossible as i was off work,they say ive used foul language towards my shift manager which i deny

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

Minutes from disciplinary hearing 18/8/2014 taken by myself the companys are alot more brief
Attended by PB (operations manager) PC (caparo note taker) & KP
PB-This is a disapliary for what happened on sunday 10th august,Im PB the operations
manager,PC who is note taker and yourself,did you want anyone in with you K?
KP-No,If I'd of had the time I'd of brought an employment solicitor with me today but seeing as I'd
opened the letter saturday and the meetings monday there's no time to get someone like that
involved,I'm here to represent myself and I'm happy with that.
PB Ok as long as we all aware you said that,the reason your in today is the incident that happened on
sunday the 10th August.I have supplied you with the shift managers statement,obviously you'll of read
that and you'll have your own words to say on that,I've read it and theres a few concerning
points ,obviously with the language and whats happened,I would like you to actually run through what
actually happened and give your version of events,any questions we will deal with them as we go
through it all,so erm after reading this I mean I can re4ad the full statement if you like,erm at
21-15,this is obviously P your shift manager,I passed K's machine's and noticed neither was
running,K was setting up block 1 on machine 14,I asked k if he was having any problems
because at least 1 machine should be set up and running 3 hours into the shift,K responded"I'm
taking my time and if you don't like it give me an fffingg warnings" I dont want to swear(little giggle).I
told K I don't want to start giving warnings I just want the machines running in the shortest time
possible,if theres no faults the rod is cleaned and available then there's no reason why your machines
are not running.K then told me to **** off and if I didn't like it i should move him to another
machine,I let him know that there is no other machine for him to go on and that I needed the
machines to run,K then pretended to slip on some water on the floor and said look at the conditions
I'm working in,the place is a ****ing joke.I told K I would clean the floor if he would just get the
machines running.Karl then shouted if your where half the manager you would jump on here and set
up the other ****ing machine for me.Again I told K I need to get the machines running K.K
then shouted **** this I don't need this shit I'm going home,and then started to walk towards the
canteen door and shouted back to me I'm going home with stress.So that was the statement that
P's gave me ,ok know do you want to tell me your version of events.
KP-Theres so many lies in that statement,can I just have that bit of paper,I did get one but I'd
forgotten it.Obviously your aware that those machines have been down for two weeks as regards to it
being a shutdown.P says on here that err rem,that piece of paper should be three times the size of
that because the conversation that we had went on for a lot longer than that.He says if there has
been no faults and the rod has been cleaned,now for a fact we did have faults and p knows it
PC-"we did have faults?"
KP-Yes,when i went to actually set the machine up and that wasn't till about 1930 because i'd loaded
the poles,we had rod sitting in the bays so I loaded them all,no 3 poles sorry to stop them from
tipping.Now when I've gone to set the machine up there was no water to the machines,right Phil
comes down and wept the water on,obviously the fitters had turned the water off at each block and
each die box.As I've come to sort the seater out at each die box water has come out over the floor
hence P saying that there was water on the floor,so he's lying in the respect that he's saying that I
haven't had any problems.I want you to know that he's lying and has falsified this statement.Its a lie
because he's admitted himself that there is water on the floor and he should be saying in this
statement that he'd come down an hour or so into the shift and that I'd mentioned to him about the
water being off.I want to know why thats not in this statement because its all based here on lies.P
started saying to me that he could have the machine running within 45 minutes and i know that thats
totally impossible from a standing start.To take all them dies out,go to the die shop and put them back
in that machine,its just totally impossible.That man has told so many lies in here and he hasn't
mentioned anything about the discussion that I'd had with him about when he was an operator and he
would constantly ride round on a skateboard.I'd mentioned to him how good of an operator he was
and that he's'd spend most of his time driving round on a skateboard.Theres nothing on there about
that so it seems to me very one sided.He's right ion respect here that he's says that I've gone home
with stress but i through;y deny this thing you got here.Rufusal to accept responsible instructions from
management,I thought P was going to be here today,I was looking forward to this,i wanted him
here.Was KP sat in the canteen reading a newspaper?Was KP stood by the fire escape with a fag hanging out of his mouth?No -where was Kap? KP was at the
machine setting it up.
PB- So your saying that you didn't refuse any instructions
KP-K was at the machine setting it up,if I was sat in the canteen reading the paper or by the fire
escape with a fag hanging out of my mouth fair enough but I'm at the machines setting it up,they are
very demanding machines these and when you come in off a shutdown where ethe machines are
totally empty,and we did have issues ,there was no water on them,I've had to strip all the die
boxes,Ive had to go and find washers,its an absolute joke and the mans telling lies on that statement
when he says un authorised absence from work,I'd told flash that I wouldn't be coming in the next
day ,thats another lie,I know company procedure and I wouldn't of risked my job by not turning
in.Rufusal to accept reasonable instructions from management-Lie,gross insubordination-Lie,I didn't
use all that language and i'd like him to prove that I did,theres about 10n lads on that shift.
PB-You denfinatley didn't say to the shift manager
KP-I definatley didn't use them words to him,and if i did I 'd like him to back it up with
proof,somebody must of heard this. Unauthorized absence from work-I'd told flash that I was going off
with stress,heres a note off my doctor,I've been to see her this morning,I've been signed off now
clinically for 2 weeks and issued medication.I think its an absolute sham how a shift manager who
has actually worked on these machines and can turn round to me and I've proved that he's lying,he
said that if there is no problems,but there was problems,there was no water to the machines,and
when Ive pout the water on the machines its come out and gone all over the floor hence his little
statement that i mentioned that I'm going to fall over in it.From the off thats just a load of rubbish.I'd
told him that I'm stressed and the fact that the company when i had a conversation with PB,there
was no messages or asked how my well being was,there was just that,now your lucky that I haven't
jumped off a bridge this weekend,I'll tell you that now.
PB -You defiantly didn't say F off to the shift manager
KP- I defiantly didn't say that
PB- ok we've gotta get that sorted.You walked off site which in itself in gross misconduct but your
saying that you informed P that your leaving the site and that you weren't going to be back in on the
monday
KP -I'd told him that i was going to be coming back tomorrow either and he said go home that was his
words,I'd loved to have seen him here today to look me in the eye because he did say that
PB-I am concerned about your well being and i always do talk to you,I mean what is it about the
machines that have got you,I know that they are not the greatest machines to work on and I know
that.
KP- Am i the first operator in the history of Caparo to go off with stress on these machines?I know for
a fact that I am not,as an operations manager you should know the stress that the operators get put
under with them machines ,two of the fastest running machines together is not an acceptable way for
a man to run 12 hours when theres other operators running the slowest machines that you've ever
seen in your life and I've brought this issue up before with not just yourself but with other shift
managers and other people and its a well known documented fact
PB- I'm looking at it know K that Ive got the big issue that your saying that you didn't tell him to F off
and he's saying that yes you did.As you know if you did its gross misconduct.Walking off site,he's
saying that you didn't let him know,your saying that you did
KP-I'm saying that I did ,well obviously
PB- It's gross misconduct,I've got a couple of points to look at and I'm not gunna take his side and I'm
not going to take yours either.I've got to sit and look at everything and make sure I'm fair to
everybody.Is there any other points that you might like to add karl or anything that i need to be made escape with a fag hanging out of his mouth?No -where was KP? KP was at the
machine setting it up.
PB- So your saying that you didn't refuse any instructions
KP-K was at the machine setting it up,if I was sat in the canteen reading the paper or by the fire
escape with a fag hanging out of my mouth fair enough but I'm at the machines setting it up,they are
very demanding machines these and when you come in off a shutdown where ethe machines are
totally empty,and we did have issues ,there was no water on them,I've had to strip all the die
boxes,Ive had to go and find washers,its an absolute joke and the mans telling lies on that statement
when he says un authorised absence from work,I'd told flash that I wouldn't be coming in the next
day ,thats another lie,I know company procedure and I wouldn't of risked my job by not turning
in.Rufusal to accept reasonable instructions from management-Lie,gross insubordination-Lie,I didn't
use all that language and i'd like him to prove that I did,theres about 10n lads on that shift.
PB-You denfinatley didn't say to the shift manager
KP-I definatley didn't use them words to him,and if i did I 'd like him to back it up with
proof,somebody must of heard this. Unauthorized absence from work-I'd told flash that I was going off
with stress,heres a note off my doctor,I've been to see her this morning,I've been signed off now
clinically for 2 weeks and issued medication.I think its an absolute sham how a shift manager who
has actually worked on these machines and can turn round to me and I've proved that he's lying,he
said that if there is no problems,but there was problems,there was no water to the machines,and
when Ive pout the water on the machines its come out and gone all over the floor hence his little
statement that i mentioned that I'm going to fall over in it.From the off thats just a load of rubbish.I'd
told him that I'm stressed and the fact that the company when i had a conversation with P,there
was no messages or asked how my well being was,there was just that,now your lucky that I haven't
jumped off a bridge this weekend,I'll tell you that now.
PB -You defiantly didn't say F off to the shift manager
KP- I defiantly didn't say that
PB- ok we've gotta get that sorted.You walked off site which in itself in gross misconduct but your
saying that you informed P that your leaving the site and that you weren't going to be back in on the
monday
KP -I'd told him that i was going to be coming back tomorrow either and he said go home that was his
words,I'd loved to have seen him here today to look me in the eye because he did say that
PB-I am concerned about your well being and i always do talk to you,I mean what is it about the
machines that have got you,I know that they are not the greatest machines to work on and I know
that.
KP- Am i the first operator in the history of Caparo to go off with stress on these machines?I know for
a fact that I am not,as an operations manager you should know the stress that the operators get put
under with them machines ,two of the fastest running machines together is not an acceptable way for
a man to run 12 hours when theres other operators running the slowest machines that you've ever
seen in your life and I've brought this issue up before with not just yourself but with other shift
managers and other people and its a well known documented fact
PB- I'm looking at it know K that Ive got the big issue that your saying that you didn't tell him to F off
and he's saying that yes you did.As you know if you did its gross misconduct.Walking off site,he's
saying that you didn't let him know,your saying that you did
KP-I'm saying that I did ,well obviously
PB- It's gross misconduct,I've got a couple of points to look at and I'm not gunna take his side and I'm
not going to take yours either.I've got to sit and look at everything and make sure I'm fair to
everybody.Is there any other points that you might like to add k or anything that i need to be made escape with a fag hanging out of his mouth?No -where was KP? KP was at the
machine setting it up.
PB- So your saying that you didn't refuse any instructions
KP-K was at the machine setting it up,if I was sat in the canteen reading the paper or by the fire
escape with a fag hanging out of my mouth fair enough but I'm at the machines setting it up,they are
very demanding machines these and when you come in off a shutdown where ethe machines are
totally empty,and we did have issues ,there was no water on them,I've had to strip all the die
boxes,Ive had to go and find washers,its an absolute joke and the mans telling lies on that statement
when he says un authorised absence from work,I'd told flash that I wouldn't be coming in the next
day ,thats another lie,I know company procedure and I wouldn't of risked my job by not turning
in.Rufusal to accept reasonable instructions from management-Lie,gross insubordination-Lie,I didn't
use all that language and i'd like him to prove that I did,theres about 10n lads on that shift.
PB-You denfinatley didn't say to the shift manager
KP-I definatley didn't use them words to him,and if i did I 'd like him to back it up with
proof,somebody must of heard this. Unauthorized absence from work-I'd told flash that I was going off
with stress,heres a note off my doctor,I've been to see her this morning,I've been signed off now
clinically for 2 weeks and issued medication.I think its an absolute sham how a shift manager who
has actually worked on these machines and can turn round to me and I've proved that he's lying,he
said that if there is no problems,but there was problems,there was no water to the machines,and
when Ive pout the water on the machines its come out and gone all over the floor hence his little
statement that i mentioned that I'm going to fall over in it.From the off thats just a load of rubbish.I'd
told him that I'm stressed and the fact that the company when i had a conversation with Pauline,there
was no messages or asked how my well being was,there was just that,now your lucky that I haven't
jumped off a bridge this weekend,I'll tell you that now.
PB -You defiantly didn't say F off to the shift manager
KP- I defiantly didn't say that
PB- ok we've gotta get that sorted.You walked off site which in itself in gross misconduct but your
saying that you informed P that your leaving the site and that you weren't going to be back in on the
monday
KP -I'd told him that i was going to be coming back tomorrow either and he said go home that was his
words,I'd loved to have seen him here today to look me in the eye because he did say that
PB-I am concerned about your well being and i always do talk to you,I mean what is it about the
machines that have got you,I know that they are not the greatest machines to work on and I know
that.
KP- Am i the first operator in the history of Caparo to go off with stress on these machines?I know for
a fact that I am not,as an operations manager you should know the stress that the operators get put
under with them machines ,two of the fastest running machines together is not an acceptable way for
a man to run 12 hours when theres other operators running the slowest machines that you've ever
seen in your life and I've brought this issue up before with not just yourself but with other shift
managers and other people and its a well known documented fact
PB- I'm looking at it know K that Ive got the big issue that your saying that you didn't tell him to F off
and he's saying that yes you did.As you know if you did its gross misconduct.Walking off site,he's
saying that you didn't let him know,your saying that you did
KP-I'm saying that I did ,well obviously
PB- It's gross misconduct,I've got a couple of points to look at and I'm not gunna take his side and I'm
not going to take yours either.I've got to sit and look at everything and make sure I'm fair to
everybody.Is there any other points that you might like to add k or anything that i need to be made aware off.I'd rather you tell me now.
KP-The fact is is that theres lies on there,he says that I didn't have any problems and you've gotta
ask him about the issue with the water,why else would there be water on the floor when the machines
have been down for two weeks.Management in this company lie and its rotten from the top down.The
issue that i had last month as regards to an accident at work,I was asked to sign this piece of
paper,which I'd spoken to you about,its signed by PB by the way but its got you name on it just
proves my fact that management lie because I was asked to come in and work a few hours so the
company didn't get investigated by the health and safety due to a lost time incident.
PB-It wasn't investigated K it just means that we've gotta tell them
KP- I'm just highlighting this as a fact that management lie and Im sticking to this now,the company
doesn't follow procedure,they adopt their own polices and make there own rules up to suit themselves
PB-Thats one incident K,calling all the management team liars is just
KP-I think that thats actually quite a serious allegation and I'm going to stick to it
PB- I can see that its serious so I'll look into that,but what I've gotta do know is look through these
notes K and decide on what I'm going to do.I won't tell u now because I don't think that its right ,I'm
going to sit with myself and read over it with Pauline and then we'll contact you later on in the day.Im
a bit gutted that you think that we all lie and we all cover things up
KP The statement there P,he says that there was no problems when he knows full well that there
was.Thats only a fraction of the conversation that I'd had with Phil
PB Is there anything from the conversation thats been missed that you'd like to add?
KP-Not really no,but i want to emphasise the fact that I'm proving that managemnt tells lies and
pressurise people into suiting there own needs.
PB - the main point that I'm going to go into is wether you or didn't tell him to F off
KP- whatever decision you come to P,I hope that in a court of law you can back it up,because I've
got my argument sorted ,I hope you can back it up because that man is a liar,he's a liar
PB- Can you back it up as well?Have you got proof that you didn't tell him to f off?have you got
anybody on the shop floor?
KP-Only my word sand my good character,have I ever received any warning's written warning's in
nearly 5 years of service in this company?
PB- Not in my time
KP-I suggest that this man has got a bit of a bee in his bonnet,its not the first time he's been involved
with instances with employees and I don't think its gunna be the last unless he changes his attitude
PB -Are you happy on the machines now?Are you planning to come back?
KP At the moment I'm too ,I've been signed off for 2 weeks by the doctor because i'm stressed,and I'll
be honest with you its the fact of them machines that have made me like this because the workload
involved in running 2 multi hollers bringing your own rod in,bringing it round ,filling all of Jamie Hacks
pear work in is an absolute joke.I'm not the first ,P's got more information,I know I won't
mention names that 2 or three operators have gone off with severe stress because of them machines
PB-I'll take that into consideration but I've got people over the road who run similar machines-they
don't complain they just get on with it
KP-Sorry P but people down the road don't have to bring their own rod in,people down the road don't have to load their own poles,people down the road don't have to fill their own paper work
in,people down the road can adjust the speed of the machines to suit
PB-Some of them you can do
KP-The ones I've been on down there you can,you can't with any of them machines
PB I'm going to look at everything you've told me K and P will contact you later today and
inform you of the outcome
PC-Can i just go through a few things -Your saying that a lot of the statement was lies,the machine
had been down for 2 weeks in the shutdown and through no fault of your own the rod needed to be
cleaned?is that right?
KP-No the ,Id loaded the poles with the cleaned rod to stop them tipping over
PC-Ok,there was faults at the machine you loaded rod to stop it tipping when you went to set the
machine there was no water,you put the water on and because the fitters had cut the water off,when
you was sorting the water out water came on the floor,hence you saying that P was lying
KP-He tried to make out that iI hadn't had any faults when we had had faults
PC-P said that the machines could be running in 45 minutes but you said its impossible
KP- impossible,Id love to see,I'll keep what I was going to say to myself actually,I'll deny that one
PC - And you said that the conversation went on for far longer
KP-As long as you know that un authorised absence from work,P was told that I wasn't going to be
coming in the next day,I didn't clock out,but I was stressed and i just had to get out of there,theres no
other reason why i wouldn't of clocked out because P new what time I'd gone home,it's not as if I
failed to clock out to pull the wool over anybody's eyes,It was just that I had to get out of there
PB-I would of liked to of had a sick note,I mean I went from the monday not knowing if you were ever
going to come back or get in touch,so that to me i'd of liked a sick note
KP-In my defence P it was left that I'd told Phil I wasn't coming in and that I was going off with
stress,I'd done my bit of telling the shift manager that I wasn't coming in and I'd phoned my doctor up
thursday morning,because the first few days are self certify,I couldn't get an appointment till this
morning
PB-Ok ,I'd of liked you to of come and seen me to be quite honest,my doors always open and you
know that
KP-Yes we've always had a good working relationship and i won't dispute the fact of that,theres
several issues that gotta be looked at on the shop floor down there,someone running them
machines,the amount of work that goes into them,the workload should be spread evenly
PB-Thats something for me to look at,is there anything Karl
KP-in 4 and half years I've had the odd instance but i've never been given one warning or anything
towards my conduct,I've always held myself pretty good with the managers etc so i want that to be
know.I vehemently deny the misconduct charges,gross insubordination,thats regarding the language I
suppose is it?
PB Are you saying that that didn't happen K?
KP-That didn't happen,I'm denying that totally,Refusal to accept reasonable instructions from
management ,like I said was I in the canteen ,No,was i by the fire exit-No,I was on the machine doing
my job,I'm suggesting that this man had a bee in his bonnet because maybe I was the only man on he shop floor
PB-Is there anything else K?
kP -No I've said my little bit
I'll have a read over it and I'll give you a call,I won't keep you hanging on
KP-Its upset me all this carry on and if people thinkI like walking round causing trouble everywhere i
go,I don't,things have happened here and its a culmination that when that man tried to make out that
I hadn't been doing my job when I wholeheartedly had,er needs looking at
PB-Ok Karl Thanks

[Johnboy007]

Re: sacked on hear say

Thanks for this very thorough and very long statement.....
The thing to do now is lodge an appeal, and you should do it in writing ASAP.
Do you have copies of the company disciplinary, Appeals and Grievance procedures.
If so, have you read them?
What is the time limit, if any, for lodging an appeal.? Also how many stages of appeal does it state?
Also, could you elaborate on getting hit by wire? Describe what happened.
As I see it, the company have taken drastic action on here-say evidence, which is not really acceptable.
So an appeal has initially, got to be lodged on that factor coupled with the accidents.
Tell me one thing, have you and the other person had any issues with each other in the past?
If so, are management aware of them?
When were you dismissed from work? (date)
The company have obviously not given you enough time to prepare a case of defence.
I will compose a letter of appeal for you, which if you are satisfied with it, you can use it.
I used to be a Senior Shop Steward, so I am used to procedures.
Obviously I cannot give any guarantee on the result, neither can I accept any liability for it's use.
This is a legal requirement, as I am not a qualified solicitor or lawyer.
I will post it up later on.

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

sorry forgot to mention ive sent in a letter of appeal
22 August 2014
Mr KM
xxxxx
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxx
Dear Mr M
I am writing to you to object to the decision made in regards to disciplinary hearing mon 18th August2014.
I vehemently deny the accusations made against me.
My refusal to accept reasonable instructions from manegment
This is wrong as i was at my machine doing my best to get it going after a shutdown lay off.Thelanguage used is a complete fabrication of the truth by my shift manager.
Gross insubordinationwrong as above
the use of foul languagewrong as above
I suggest that there is a which hunt against due to accidents/claims I have been involved in at work.Isuggest that the company is doing everything in its powers to make my position un tenable hence theletter I was asked to sign regarding payment for lost time if i didn't make a claim in the courts againstthe company.I also suggest my failure to sign a letter that the company would pay me for time off if Isigned a document sating I would pursue the matter through the courts,also would like to know thereason of asking a man who phoned in sick to attend work for an hour or two for the purpose ofclocking in and avoiding an investigation by the health & safety committee.This matter was broughtup in the meetings so iim sure you'll have it included in the minutes.
I request a copy of the minutes of the meeting to help me in my defence.yours sincerely

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

i was hit in the face by wire whilst training on a machine i hadnt been signed off on i was admitted to hospital with a nasty cut to bridge of nose made i think by my safety googles,i didnt realize how expensive a tribunal can be but if ive got a good case which i think i have i will get the money from somewwhere.
i believe that even if i won at the appeal my position would become impossible,getting a few quid out of them is what im after,is it right that a man can be sacked on the hearsay of one other man?
the operations manager has it in for me as i voiced my disaproval in regardings to the pressure i received when they wanted me to sign that document regarding not putting in a claim,the company has just had a load of redunancies and i feel they after easy way out of getting rid of me

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

also if i do become invovled in a costly tribunal can i claim the money back if i win?thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy letters lol

[Johnboy007]

Re: sacked on hear say

Hi Karl,
Well I have done that letter and maybe you can keep it, to use if the appeal goes against you.
The tribunal awards costs......
In the vast majority of cases (over 95%) costs are awarded to the employee.
Only if you take a case to tribunal that has no body of proof, or hasn't got a dog's hell of a chance of success, will cost be awarded to the company.

Copy and paste this letter into word and fill in the relevant names and dates.

FAO: (name of manager who conducted the hearing), Operations Manager (Name of Company)
(date)
I (your name) wish to appeal on the decision of dismissal made by (name of manager who conducted hearing), (hereafter called the company) at my disciplinary hearing on (date of hearing)
I base my appeal on the following relevant reasons.
The government web site, www.gov.uk clearly states that an employer’s disciplinary procedures should follow the Acas code of practice. Clearly in my case, the company have failed to do so.
The fundamental rule of any disciplinary procedure is that it should be fair and impartial.
The company failed to give adequate notice of a disciplinary hearing or to the allegations made against me.
Having received a letter on Saturday, to inform me that the hearing was on the following Monday, is to say the least, not applicable to any recognised disciplinary procedures.
ACAS, clearly state that an employee should be given enough time to prepare a case.
The two days I was given was far too inadequate, in that my employment legal advisers would not be available on a weekend.
The Company have failed to produce any evidence, other than hearsay evidence from the shift manager.
The Company in accepting the shift manager’s statement as fact, and with no other evidence to back it up have failed to uphold the fundamental rule of fairness and impartiality.
The shift manager has stated that I was at my place of work setting up block 1 on machine 14.
That the setting up was delayed through unforeseen circumstances, which were beyond my control, does not mean I refused to carry out a reasonable request from him, merely that I couldn’t.
The shift manager has also admitted that there was water on the floor, which indicated a problem, but the Company seem to have overlooked this relevant point.
He also stated Quote: ‘Karl then pretended to slip on some water on the floor’. Unquote:
How can the Company justify this statement as being true?
What possible evidence has been submitted by him showing that the slip was faked? None would be the truthful answer.
I submit that the company are deliberately taking the shift managers side, simply because of my refusal to sign a disclaimer letter for an accident that I suffered in the workplace, and submit that the company are using the line manager’s statement as an excuse to get rid of me.
I also submit for consideration, that had I used the odd cuss word in a conversation, is in itself not a dismissal offence.
In fact there are cases where an employment tribunal has ruled that dismissal for swearing in a workplace is unfair, and have awarded compensation.
The company can check this out on the world wide web.
I again repeat that the statement from the shift manager, is based purely on hearsay and has no
body of proof.
Therefore I wish to appeal the decision of dismissal by the company.


Signed (your name and position in company)

[Johnboy007]

Re: sacked on hear say

In fact Karl you can still give this letter to the manager stating that it is relevnt to your appeal.
Take it yourself and give it to him or the company.
Refusal to accept it by them, would also be to your advantage.
But do take it ASAP.

ACAS Code Of Practice below........

[bootlegger1974]

Re: sacked on hear say

thansks very much mate i'll take it first thing tomorrow,Id told pauline from HR that i wouldnt be available for an appeal hearing this week as i was signed off with stress by my doctor till next monday,apriciate your advice,will keep u updated on proceedings,like i say i dont want my job back i want to prove t whitchhunt against m e and get a few quid

[Johnboy007]

Re: sacked on hear say

thansks very much mate i'll take it first thing tomorrow,Id told pauline from HR that i wouldnt be available for an appeal hearing this week as i was signed off with stress by my doctor till next monday,apriciate your advice,will keep u updated on proceedings,like i say i dont want my job back i want to prove theresa whitchhunt against m e and get a few quid

Hi Karl,
If you win your appeal, then reinstatement is a must, as everything should revert to 'Status Quo', which in effect means, as it was originally. So you would not have any disciplinary record on your file.
Of course, you could negotiate with the company on compensation in lieu of reinstatement.
Just say that coming back to your job may prove to be difficult, for both yourself and the company, but you are prepared to accept a reasonable compensation offer from the company, and in exchange you would tender your resignation.