Poor performace disiplinary

[Help112]

Hi hope you are able to help me again,

a bit of background first:

I work for a company that is a reasonable size in a call centre, after a period of long term sick approx. 2 months for depression I was put on a stage one disciplinary, after some further short term sickness for both depression and diabetes I was then put onto a stage 2 disciplinary, after some more sickness again for either depression or diabetes the upped it to a stage 3 which I appealed and won so it was then knocked back to a stage 2 with an increase in triggers, over the past 12 months a least my performance at work has been a bit hit and miss and receiving a couple of complaints from customers about things I said I would do but for some reason didn't, I was then but on a performance improvement plan.

Now I received a couple more complaints and my performance has been hit and miss again.

I have been invited to a disciplinary for poor performance and it states in the documents that it could lead to dismissal.

My poor performance is due to my depression and me trying to continue going to work as I didn't want to be taking any further time off.

Any advise on what I could do.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

For a start off, sickness is not a disciplinary matter.
If you won an appeal on discipline then it should have reverted to 'Status Quo' (in the state in which things were before), not knocked down to a lower stage two.
The company have not followed recognised procedure in dealing with this.
At you disciplinary hearings, did you have a witness or representation by a Union Rep?
Have you submitted sickness certificates to your employer?
If you have, what do they state is wrong with you?
When was the last certificate you put in?
Are you on medication? If so what?
Have the company offered you any help?
Have you been offered alternative work?
The sooner you let me know, then the sooner I can advise you.

[Help112]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

For a start off, sickness is not a disciplinary matter.
Have you submitted sickness certificates to your employer?
If you have, what do they state is wrong with you?
When was the last certificate you put in?
Are you on medication? If so what?
Have the company offered you any help?
Have you been offered alternative work?
The sooner you let me know, then the sooner I can advise you.

Thanks for your reply.

I have given sick notes to my employer and the reason stated on them was depression. I have not given any in the last 2 years as not been off long enough.
I am an insulin dependant diabetic and inject 4 times a day, my anti depressants are sertraline and I'm on 150 mg (I started on 50 but has been increased twice over the last 12 months)
I've been given extra coaching but it's not a knowledge problem it's low mood that makes me not care (not really sure how to word that)
I've asked for alternative work and also had a medical (arranged by work) that stated as possible change of role or reduced hours on the phone when I feel that way but work stated it's a call centre and no other work available.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Thanks for your reply.

I have given sick notes to my employer and the reason stated on them was depression. I have not given any in the last 2 years as not been off long enough.
I am an insulin dependant diabetic and inject 4 times a day, my anti depressants are sertraline and I'm on 150 mg (I started on 50 but has been increased twice over the last 12 months)
I've been given extra coaching but it's not a knowledge problem it's low mood that makes me not care (not really sure how to word that)
I've asked for alternative work and also had a medical (arranged by work) that stated as possible change of role or reduced hours on the phone when I feel that way but work stated it's a call centre and no other work available.

Legislation does allow an employer to dismiss an employee in the case of long term sickness.
But it is not a disciplinary procedure, as you have done nothing wrong.
Now show this to your employer.....
Side effects of Sertraline, can include......
feeling anxious
feeling nervous
flatulence
general feeling of being unwell
vomiting
worsening of depression
withdrawal symptoms can occur when this medicine is stopped. These include feeling dizzy, paraesthesiae, difficulty sleeping, strange dreams, feeling agitated or anxious, nausea, vomiting, tremors or headaches.
These are just some of the side effects that can be felt by taking this drug.

So an increase in the dosage, could also increase the likely hood of suffering side effects.
You company are bang out of order in even trying to discipline you for this.
Can you name the company?
You should ask your company to remove any disciplinary black mark against you from the works records.
Make it absolutely clear that sickness is not a disciplinary matter.
Threaten to complain to an Employment Tribunal.

[davec1960]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Help112 is being disciplined due to capability not sickness, although the depression is likely leading to poor performance.

A capability process should highlight the problem areas, ensure that Help112 understood the problem and agree an improvement plan detailing targets and timescales and any necessary training and support.
Help112 did this happen last time?

[Help112]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Help112 is being disciplined due to capability not sickness, although the depression is likely leading to poor performance.

A capability process should highlight the problem areas, ensure that Help112 understood the problem and agree an improvement plan detailing targets and timescales and any necessary training and support.
Help112 did this happen last time?

Yeah the sickness stuff is the previous stuff, it was dealt with by the absence management process and this is why they put me on a disiplinary, the issue at the moment is the poor performance, it is effected by my depression.

The Perfomance Improvement plan was set to not receive any further complaints within 3 months and to have an average monthly quality score above 90% over 3 months

Not sure I could name the company due to not wanting it to be picked up by them that i'm seeking advice.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Help112 is being disciplined due to capability not sickness, although the depression is likely leading to poor performance.

A capability process should highlight the problem areas, ensure that Help112 understood the problem and agree an improvement plan detailing targets and timescales and any necessary training and support.
Help112 did this happen last time?

Hi Dave,
The OP stated.
after a period of long term sick approx. 2 months for depression I was put on a stage one disciplinary, after some further short term sickness for both depression and diabetes I was then put onto a stage 2 disciplinary, after some more sickness again for either depression or diabetes the upped it to a stage 3 which I appealed and won so it was then knocked back to a stage 2
This is just against any recognised procedure anyway.
If you win an appeal, the situation reverts to 'Status Quo'.
The company obviously do not know this, or chose to ignore it.

Poor performance caused by sickness is not a disciplinary procedure. Depression is a real illness, with real symptoms.
In my many years as a Senior Shop Steward, I would never, ever allow a company to issue disciplinary action for ill health.
OP has also stated, and i QUOTE,
I have been invited to a disciplinary for poor performance and it states in the documents that it could lead to dismissal.
So if OP is suffering from depression, then the company are acting unlawfully in taking disciplinary action. Full stop, end of story.
Providing OP has submitted the relevant sickness certificates as is required.
OP also stated.......'My poor performance is due to my depression'.
By all means attend a meeting to discuss capability, but not a disciplinary meeting because of sickness.

Health & Safety At Work Act 1974 states,
It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
I don't think they meant using disciplinary procedures in the event of sickness.

[Help112]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Hi Dave,

Poor performance caused by sickness is not a disciplinary procedure. Depression is a real illness, with real symptoms.
In my many years as a Senior Shop Steward, I would never, ever allow a company to issue disciplinary action for ill health.
OP has also stated, and i QUOTE,
I have been invited to a disciplinary for poor performance and it states in the documents that it could lead to dismissal.
So if OP is suffering from depression, then the company are acting unlawfully in taking disciplinary action. Full stop, end of story.
Providing OP has submitted the relevant sickness certificates as is required.
By all means attend a meeting to discuss capability, but not a disciplinary meeting because of sickness.

Health & Safety At Work Act 1974 states,
It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
I don't think they meant using disciplinary procedures in the event of sickness.

Not sure what they can do or what I can do, the wording of the invite is:

'Notice oif disciplinary meeting

I write to confirm that you are required to attend a disciplinary meeting on ****. If you require any further time to prepare your responce please let me know immediately.

The meeting is been held to discuss the allegation as detailed in the attached statement of grounds of action.

You have the right to be accompanied by a representative etc....

I attach a copy of the companys disciplinary procedure for your reference.

I enclose any documents and witness statements to be considered and discussed at the disciplinary meeting.

I must advise you that the outcome of this meeting could result in disciplinary action being taken in accordance with the company's disciplinary procedure and you may be issued with an appropriate disciplinary sanction.

...

This statement is provided in line with the employment act 2002, which requires ********, as your employer, to set out in writing ......that lead us to contemplate dismissing or taking disciplinary action against you.

Details of the allegation

Following a performance improvment plan being implemented on the 14th july for ****'s call quality, there has not been the necessary improvement required for him to meet an overall average score equal to or above 90%, with 0 high risk calls

On the 9th of May 2014 ***** was placed on a perfprmance improvement plan regarding the amount of upheld complaints he has recieved. In the plan it detailed that ***** should recieve zero upheld complaints during 3 month period. **** has recieved 2 upheld compaints since the plan was implimented. One in june which was agree not to be included and one in july for failing to action a customers request.

details of breach

failure to meet above. therefore leading to an unacceptable standard of work (either deliberate or through lack of capabilty)

[davec1960]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Hi Help112

It does look as if your employer is looking to dismiss, they have most likely taken advice and see capability rather than sickness/absence as the way to do it.

0 high risk calls seems a harsh target. Are all employees expected to have 0, and are they subject to disciplinary action if they miss this target?

If the targets in the performance plan are the same as all other employees targets and training/support has been given you need to give a reason for the failure to improve or I fear your employer will dismiss.
Do you think that the change in medication dosage was a cause?
Do you think that you can ever consistantly meet the targets?

[Help112]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Hi Help112

It does look as if your employer is looking to dismiss, they have most likely taken advice and see capability rather than sickness/absence as the way to do it.

0 high risk calls seems a harsh target. Are all employees expected to have 0, and are they subject to disciplinary action if they miss this target?

If the targets in the performance plan are the same as all other employees targets and training/support has been given you need to give a reason for the failure to improve or I fear your employer will dismiss.
Do you think that the change in medication dosage was a cause?
Do you think that you can ever consistantly meet the targets?

Yes targets are the same for everyone, if you get a high risk then its further coaching, I'm already getting further coaching.
I don't beleive the change in dosage was a cause as the change in dosage was due to me feeling worse with the depression, the depression is the cause of the poor performance.
Yes if I can manage my depression there is no reason for me not to manage, I have worked in my current job for around 5 years and I used to be very good at it.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

Help112 you posted the following.
failure to meet above. therefore leading to an unacceptable standard of work (either deliberate or through lack of capabilty)
Have the company attempted to find out which it was, deliberate or capability?
I suggest you lodge a formal grievance at the very start of the meeting. Don't wait for the meeting to start.
In fact hand the letter in before the meeting.
Make sure you have your witness/representative with you.
Make your grievance in writing and keep a copy.
Make it on the following points.....

To (name of person in charge of meeting) (name of company)
Date...
I (your name and department) wish to lodge a formal grievance against (name of company).
My reasons are as follows,
The company are well aware of my ongoing medical conditions, which includes bouts of depression and diabetes.
This has led to a deterioration in my concentration and abilities to remember things.
While I accept the companies right to ensure that work is carried out to their satisfaction.
I do not accept that (name of company) have the right to invoke a disciplinary procedure, for what is clearly a medical condition.
In carrying out this disciplinary hearing, (name of company) have not adhered to acceptable procedures in the workplace.
(name of company) have also failed to follow the ACAS code of practice, in disciplinary procedures.
The Employment Tribunal expect all companies to follow the ACAS code, and I will be mentioning this to a Tribunal, if the need arises.
Disciplinary actions taken by (name of company) against me in the past, for sickness absences, have been unlawful and I request that all records pertaining to such actions, are removed forthwith.
(name of company), in bringing this disciplinary hearing, have done so without first checking if the performance levels have been bought on by my illness or by some other means.
I therefore request that (name of company), reconsider the decision to hold a disciplinary procedure, and instead hold a meeting to discuss my problems, and a possible solution.

Sign and dated........

Copy and paste this into word, adding the required details.

[lba40]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

No expert here, but I think your situation would be 'Discrimination arising from a disability' (section 15 Equality act 2010). Your disciplinary certainly seems to be due to your depression/diabetes (arising from a disability), identifying the discrimination is another question. Not considering reasonable adjustments?.
Regards,
Lba40.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Poor performace disiplinary

No expert here, but I think your situation would be 'Discrimination arising from a disability' (section 15 Equality act 2010). Your disciplinary certainly seems to be due to your depression/diabetes (arising from a disability), identifying the discrimination is another question. Not considering reasonable adjustments?.
Regards,
Lba40.

Good point........
But as you rightly said, identifying the disability is paramount to establishing discrimination........