Employment Law

[busybee29]

Hi

Just wanted to ask I returned back to work after having 4 months off from work due to an operation. At the end of April, I received no sick pay. I phoned payroll and they informed me that I had been paid too much sick pay from the previous month. I said surely someone could of let me know, she just apologized and said they had taken it all back and I did not owe them any money. I was forced to take a loan from work for £300 which I did not receive until a week later!! I have a daughter who is 17 and goes to college so money was very tight. I could not pay my rent or council tax. That was very hard for me as I was also threatened with eviction through no fault of my own. I found out through a district manager that they had messed up my pay for the four months I was off. I'm also angry because I did phone payroll every month just to ask if they had received my medical certificate and they said yes and mentioned nothing of their error. I was told by the same district manager that because they had taken all the money back there was nothing I could do even though I had raised a grievance but the letter that I handed in:tinysmile_hmm_t2: conveniently disappeared.

Need some advice please. Thanks

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

If your employer runs their own sick pay scheme it is a 'company sick pay scheme' and you should be paid what you are due under that. If you aren't entitled to anything under a company scheme, your employer should still pay you Statutory Sick Pay (SSP) if you're eligible.
You are not eligible if you have received the maximum 28 weeks of SSP.
Your employer is only obliged to pay SSP ( statutory Sick pay ) up to 28 weeks.
Any money that has been overpaid, they are entitled to claim back.

[des8]

Re: Employment Law

Whilst Johnboy is correct that employer has right to reclaim overpaid sick pay, there have been cases where the principle of estoppel/chnge of position has been applied.
See here ;http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/resources/l...erpayments.cfm
Although I doubt it will be of any use to OP as money has already been deducted,(which is legal either in a lump sum or deductions)

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

Hi,
Thanks for the post Des8.
I think the point that matters is..........
Where an employer overpays an employee by mistake the courts will normally bar recovery if the employer led the employee to believe that she is entitled to treat the money as her own, not reasonably expect her to notice overpayment, that the employee has spent the money in good faith and the overpayment was not caused primarily by the fault of the employee".
I would argue, that as the employee, in the case of busybee29, had failed to inform her of any overpayment, that her sickness pay had come to an end. Then it was reasonable .for her not to notice that overpayment, and consequently she spent the money in good faith.
The overpayment was in no way the fault of busybee29. There could very well be a case of estoppel here. Based n these facts, reclaiming back the overpayment is not lawful.
For the sake of bussybee29, here is an explanation of the term 'estoppel'.
The principle that if two parties proceed on the basis of an assumption, where that assumption proves to be incorrect, neither party can go back on it without there being potential damages. Where an employer overpays an employee by mistake the courts will normally bar recovery if the employer led the employee to believe that she is entitled to treat the money as her own, not reasonably expect her to notice overpayment, that the employee has spent the money in good faith and the overpayment was not caused primarily by the fault of the employee".

[ironman]

Re: Employment Law

Almost all contracts of employment now state that any overpayment of wages can be reclaimed through salary. There is nothing stopping the employer talking it back in one hit, though for a large amount it will be sensinle to offer a repayment schedule

Section 13 Employment Rights Act allows the employer to make any deductions as to overpayment of salary The employer need not tell an employee sick pay entitlement has run out. Things like sick pay entitlement will be in the employees contract of employment or hand book as an express term

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

Hi ironman,
Found this on 'Shoosmiths' website.....
The employer who fails to acknowledge a mistake and simply proceeds to rely on section 14 to recover without giving notice to the employee could be a breach of the implied term of trust and confidence (entitling the employee to resign and claim constructive dismissal).

[ironman]

Re: Employment Law

The key is could, which refers to might, perhaps, i might win the lotto. For a solicitor to make such a statement is irresponsible. The only way to go is on established case law and statutory provision.

Unless a case has been elevated to an EAT where a judgement has been made, that statement from shoesmiths is just hot air as any Tribunal will go by previous precedent.

I for one would not like to resign and claim constructive dismissal on just the opinion of a solicitor, you will get destroyed by the respondents solicitor at the case management stage

Of course, just my own opinion to debate

[des8]

Re: Employment Law

It's great for us to argue the finer points, but I think we are probably all agreed that in this case, as the money has already been clawed back there is little the op can do.
If op was to try and regain the amount, either via a tribunal or court, it would in effect mean the end of current employment.
It would be stressful, and possibly expensive as there is no certainty of winning and op would end up with otherside's costs as well.

I would suggest better way forward is to write to a very senior person (not the district manager) [is this a public organisation or a private company?], explain the embarrassing position you have been put in by the organisation's mistakes and request their assistance.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

On with the debate M'Lord
This From Citizens Advice..........
Employment tribunals are different to the courts when it comes to costs. Unlike the courts, you don't automatically have to pay your employer’s legal costs if you lose the case. You may still have to pay your representative, depending on what you agreed beforehand.

But there is only a very small chance that you will have to pay your employer's costs. Figures show that costs orders are only made in less than 1% of cases. Your employer's representative may say they will apply for you to pay costs but, usually, they are just trying to scare you into dropping the case or accepting a low offer of settlement.
There are a few situations where there is a risk that you might have to pay costs. For example, this might be if you brought a hopeless case that had no chance of success, or you behaved very badly in the way the case was run or you turned down a good offer to settle.
If your claim involves a breach of contract your employer can, if appropriate, bring a counterclaim against you. You can find out more about this on the Directgov website at: www.direct.gov.uk.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

I understand your feeling friend, But I suggest you to get some better LINK REMOVED Employment law advice[/B][/URL] from your friends or your family member. They were able to solve your problem they will suggest to some better ideas.

AndrewMoore,
I think your comment is 'out of order'.
There are many knowledgeable people on this site and I for one have had experience with industrial law, tribunals and work procedures.
We try to help those who are unable to help themselves.
We do not advertise our services, but give them freely.
It seems to me, that out of the two posts you have made on this site, both are nothing more than 'Free Advertising', for a legal company that you probably have an interest in. (my opinion)

[Amethyst]

Re: Employment Law

He's just a spammer Johnboy, I shall get rid xx EDIT: DONE. removed link in your quote, but left your quote there so you don't look like you're talking to yourself xx

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

Thank you xx

[Johnboy007]

Re: Employment Law

He's just a spammer Johnboy, I shall get rid xx EDIT: DONE. removed link in your quote, but left your quote there so you don't look like you're talking to yourself xx

Thanks, It's my age xx