Overtime Disciplinary

[Sparky Swanny]

Re: Overtime Disciplinary

look as long as you do some overtime as your contract states they can not make you work a full shift if you don't want to
don't let them grind you down.

Hi vanman,


now you have me thinking. 2x52weeks= 104, 104 x 12 (3 years) = 312, 312 x £13 = £4,056.


so does this mean I would have a good chance of a claim for the hours that haven't been paid over the years?? I will have payslips to prove that it hasn't been paid and time sheets to prove that I have worked the hours.


Does the break times need stopping at source (not tax deductible) so therefor they can't say that the 2hr extra is for breaktimes?


Talk about opening a can of worms

[vanman]

Re: Overtime Disciplinary

well take your time sheets add up all the hours it says you worked then take your pay slips add up the hours you have been paid
then take it from there
whether you can claim any out standing payment i am unsure
sorry cant help you there.

[Sparky Swanny]

Re: Overtime Disciplinary

Hi All,

had my disciplinary today and the out come was...........Verbal warning.

just like to say thanks for all your help

Now its time to start the appeal, I have started it but its work in progress and could do with your help please.

this is where I am with it

Breach of disciplinary procedure

My request for a copy of the notes made within my disciplinary paperwork has been refused until after the appeal has been made, I believe that this is a breach of ACAS code of Practice for the disciplinary procedure.

• I believe that I cannot make a full and fair appeal without access to these notes.
• Refused on the basis that his boss is on holiday.

(Spoken to Acas and they have said that this is Breach of Acas Code of practice)
I stated at the start of the disciplinary procedure that I had not had enough time to prepare for the disciplinary. This was answered on the paperwork (“no” was circled).
I had not had enough time due to working 12 hour night shifts (this was mentioned verbally but it was not written down).
I believe that continuing with the disciplinary affected my ability to provide a complete and fair response to the allegation and is in breach of the ACAS code of conduct as well as the *** Disciplinary policy.
(As quoted from Acas code of practice)
“Inform the employee of the problem
9. If it is decided that there is a disciplinary case to answer, the employee
should be notified of this in writing. This notification should contain
sufficient information about the alleged misconduct or poor performance
and its possible consequences to enable the employee to prepare
to answer the case at a disciplinary meeting. It would normally be
appropriate to provide copies of any written evidence, which may include
any witness statements, with the notification.”
11. The meeting should be held without unreasonable delay whilst allowing
the employee reasonable time to prepare their case.

require employees to be informed of the complaints against them and supporting evidence, before a disciplinary meeting







I have not had an informal meeting about the subject of the disciplinary. This is a breach of *** own disciplinary policy.
Quote from the *** disciplinary policy
Process
a) Informal stages
By normal day‐to‐day corrective action and by individual counselling and advice, management will make employees aware of the improvements required, in their performance and conduct.
Employees will be counselled for minor offences by management, and a note will be placed on the employees’ personal files to record the discussion.
In the event of failure to improve the performance or conduct to the required level, the following procedure will be invoked.

I believe that, no aspect of the reason for the disciplinary (i.e. refusing / not wanting to do overtime) has ever been discussed in an informal meeting. I have not been made aware of the improvements that are required as no such talks have taken place.
I asked **** during the disciplinary ;
ME- ”would you agree that I have not had an informal discussion about me not wanting to do overtime”
HIM – “No”
ME – “could you tell me when this informal meeting took place?”
HIM – “It was the meeting we had with (his boss)”
At the start of the meeting HIM indicated that the reason for the disciplinary is that since April I have not been doing any over time and that he had concerns that I would not do overtime in the future. The meeting with (his boss) took place in Jan, 3months before HIM said that the problem started.
Furthermore the meeting that took place with (his boss) was originally called by myself regarding concern’s that I had. - (Ref/003) email evidence
As you can see on the emails provided as evidence one of the concerns that I had was - that I had not been offered overtime.
At no time was it expressed to me that there was any concern about me not volunteering to do overtime and I had not been told that I had to volunteer to do overtime or make any improvements.


HIM was the person who held the investigation meeting and it was HIM who held the disciplinary meeting.
(As quoted from the Acas code of practice)
“6. In misconduct cases, where practicable, different people should carry out
the investigation and disciplinary hearing.”


Appeal against the disciplinary
(Failure to comply with a reasonable management instruction and Breaking terms and conditions to comply with hours of work)
Further to the breach of procedures that have affected the fairness and integrity of the disciplinary procedure I do believe that the disciplinary action taken was unfair for the following reasons,

• Not told what grounds for the reason of this decision.
• No factual evidence to support this (Ref/001), he has only ever asked people if they wanted to do overtime. He as always got the overtime covered before I had the chance to offer to cover it.
• Changed the wording of my investigation from “don’t want” to “I am not doing” on points that is talking about overtime in the minutes that he has provided.
  • E.g. I don’t want do overtime unless its paid at time and half/ I am not doing overtime unless its paid at time and half (Ref/002)
  
  
• Didn’t provide me with his evidence until we were sitting in the disciplinary, his evidence was as follows,
  • Minutes of the Investigation (that were wrong) (Ref/002)
  • A list of Emails, text and personal request for overtime. (no factual evidence i.e. no physical emails) (Ref/001)
  
  
• Questions I asked in the disciplinary meeting and the answers he gave,
  • How much notice do you need to give, if you wanted me to do overtime?
    • Immediately! But you can refuse. For instance at late notice you asked to go pick the kids up and everyone on site refused so BOB offered to come in.
      • Points about the above question,
        • He said that I can refuse (which I never have).
        • Does everyone on site that day get disciplined?
        • Do we only need to offer to come in to do overtime?
    
    
  • What happens if I’m unable to do overtime when you want me to do it?
    • This won’t be a problem unless it continues to the point that I think you are trying to get out of overtime.
      • Points about above question,
        • So if I’m unable to do overtime due to my home life, that he is aware of, then I shouldn’t be in a disciplinary for not doing overtime.
    
    
  • Would you agree that you have only ever asked if people wanted to do overtime?
    • Yes!
      • Points about above question,
        • I have on occasions not wanted to do overtime but I have never refused to do it.

Points that was a reasonable request that I got denied

• Not allowed to voice record the meeting.
• Denied a copy of the disciplinary meeting minutes before I appeal.
• Asked to know why the other 4 points in the investigation had no further action, in which he wouldn’t tell me.
• Asked if I could request them, he said you can but you wont get them

Other relevant points from Acas that should be considered
Please note that these are quoted from the Acas code of practice.

• “where the facts are in dispute, no disciplinary penalty is imposed until the case has been carefully investigated, and there is a reasonably held belief that the employee committed the act in question.”

• “Copies of meeting records should be given to the employee including copies of any formal minutes that may have been taken. In certain circumstances (for example to protect a witness) the employer might withhold some information”.

• “It is not always necessary to hold an investigatory meeting (often called a fact finding meeting). If a meeting is held, give the employee advance warning and time to prepare.”