Suspended for a grievance?

[pablo55]

Hi


New here but hoping someone can help. I was placed on a precautionary suspension from work on the 10th April for allegations of bullying and harassment and other matters. They also gave me an information sheet stating why the disciplinary procedures had been initiated - potential gross misconduct. Needless to say I was shocked, but not surprised as 6 days earlier I had been to speak with my union about my own issues about how my employer had been treating me for the previous 2 years.


As of the 17th April they dropped the 'other matters' but still kept me suspended. 12th May they stated I was still being suspended because of the nature of the allegations. 16th May they met me during a 'fact-finding' meeting and basically put a load of nonsense to me some going back two years, most factually incorrect and others just plain wrong. One of the issues was I hadn't allocated KIT days to staff on maternity leave even though I have records that show this was discussed with them, and actually legally and in line with my company's policies, it is at my agreement and is not compulsory.


The meeting ended and then 3 weeks later at extremely short notice the requested another meeting saying they had not put everything to me. I attended in good faith and my manager started by saying 'as you know we are carrying this out under the grievance procedure'. I objected and stated the information they have given me says disciplinary policy, their own policies state this, and if it was only a grievance why was I suspended? They wouldn't answer me.


Two days after the meeting I emailed to basically state that the process was flawed, was not impartial (my manager is one of the people I had been raising issues about), and I was refusing to take part until I took advice. Didn't get any response until 4 weeks later my manager emails to say she us proceeding to a full investigation and interviewing witnesses, under the formal stage of the Grievance Procedure.


So I am stuck with no answers, my Union who kept telling me it was Disciplinary Policy now doesn't want to know. I have seen a couple of solicitors and their view is that basically my employer wants rid of me, which I have thought for a while.


My question really is can I be suspended under the Grievance Policy? My Union tried to tell me that you could run Grievance and Disciplinary together at the same time. I'm sure that I maybe haven't explained things entirely clearly but would appreciate any help at all. My employer thinks because of who they are they can just do what they want.


Thanks

[Harmonica]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

The truth is they can suspend you whilst an investigation is taking place. As you have already suggested your employer appears to want you out of your job. They are using suspension to intimidate you and cause you distress in the hope that it will force you into resigning. This is a common tactic, especially in the public sector where they have unlimited funds in the way of taxpayers money to pay an employee to sit at home doing nothing whilst they build a case against an employee they wish to dismiss. However, there is case law that suggests knee jerk and unnecessary suspensions to be frowned upon and that suspensions should not be an automatic response to suspend an employee involved in an investigation. You might wish to point this out to your employer.

In his judgement relating to Crawford v Suffolk Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust, Elias LJ, a highly respected employment law judge stated:

“This case raises a matter which causes me some concern. It appears to be the almost automatic response of many employers to allegations of this kind to suspend the employees concerned, and to forbid them from contacting anyone, as soon as a complaint is made, and quite irrespective of the likelihood of the complaint being established. As Lady Justice Hale, as she was, pointed out in Gogay v Herfordshire County Council [2000] IRLR 703, even where there is evidence supporting an investigation, that does not mean that suspension is automatically justified. It should not be a knee jerk reaction, and it will be a breach of the duty of trust and confidence towards the employee if it is.”

The manner in which your union has behaved does not surprise me one bit. Unions these days are extremely poor and cannot be relied upon.

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Hi Harmonica

Thanks for the reply. I suppose I am confused in that when they suspended me they said it was for potential Gross Misconduct and being carried out under the Disciplinary Policy - the paperwork states this. Their policies also state that they can only suspend me for potential Gross Misconduct which is under the Disciplinary Policy. When they suspended me the 'word' grievance wasn't mentioned once, or in any written communication, until the 6th June. On the 16th May, my Union rep even queried with them why they were not using the Grievance Procedure, particularly the informal first stage.

From the 6th June they have said that it is being carried out under the Formal Grievance Procedure and always has been, and also stated this obviously wasn't gross misconduct. I queried why I was suspended - they wouldn't answer. I queried again via email on the 12th June - no answer. I also as of today still have no notes from the meeting on the 6th June, whilst I was also being questioned by not only my Line Manager but also the Note taker, who was the HR rep.

My query really then is if they have said that it was being carried out under Disciplinary Policy, which is clearly laid out and they gave me a copy of, can I still be suspended if they are now saying it is a grievance? Surely is there not an argument that they have pre-empted the outcome if they are saying it isn't gross misconduct but at the start said it could be, and are continuing to suspend me under the Grievance Procedure which doesn't allow for suspension?

I have had an initial consultation with a solicitor due to the disappearance act of my union and their opinion is that they are making such a mess of it just let them get on with it. Also, even though I have been suspended from the 10th April, they informed me on the 4th July that they were only now commencing the formal investigation.

[Harmonica]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

It does sound like a right mess. However, if the grievance procedure involves an investigation of some sorts then they are technically able to suspend you.

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

I think I have it figured out now - spoke with ACAS who were very helpful. They advised that they can only suspend me if it allows for it in their policies and under the correct policy that allows it - the policies determine everything. The only policy they have that allows it is the Disciplinary Policy which is the paperwork that they gave me. I think what has happened is that have suspended me for the 'other matters' but lumped the other stuff in with it. They have been looking rid of me for a while (have no job description and they refer to my position as something different from what my contract says) and the other matters, without going into detail, would have allowed them to do that as it would be gross misconduct. However they dropped it in 7 days as there was no grounds to it (which I knew). To save face but ultimately to try and force me out they have persisted with the suspension and gross misconduct until they have realised that they won't be able to get away with it (the issues raised are farcical), and it would also mean that if it was carried out under the Disciplinary Policy that once it proceeded to a Disciplinary Interview someone in the organisation from outside our area, likely Head Office, would hear that aspect. They are desperate that I don't talk to anyone in Head Office about what I know. Therefore, the only way they can control it is to go down the grievance route - the only problem being that under their own policies they can't suspend me under this. If they admitted it though they would be admitting I had been wrongfully suspended for 3 months, especially as they only just started the investigation last week. They could easily have shifted me to another office if they had wanted to, rather than suspend me. ACAS also advised about submitting a grievance.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Hi,
A disciplinary suspension can only be made following a disciplinary hearing, at which you are entitled to have either a Union Rep or a witness to attend with you.
Remember under English laws, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
A formal suspension without a disciplinary hearing can be made but you are still entitled to representation at the time this is given to you. And it is only pending the outcome of an investigation into the case.
The first thing to do is get hold of the company Grievance, Disciplinary, and Appeals procedures.
Procedures do have time limits at each stage.
If the company insist that they have invoked the Disciplinary or Grievance procedure, then I would bet my last pound that they are well outside these limits. Assuming the time table of events you state are correct.
If they are, then you invoke a Grievance Procedure, stating that you are unhappy with the companies handling of the whole matter, and that because of their breaching procedure, then everything should revert to status quo ante, literally "the state in which before", means "the state of affairs that existed previously".
In other words, they have no case to put forward.
It is important that you get those procedures.
The company cannot deny you these.
Enjoy the suspension on full pay.
While on suspension it is correct that you may not approach other staff members, but only in their place of work.
Meet in a pub or club is perfectly OK, as your company have no control over their employees outside of the work environment, save for matters of security or confidentiality.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

As a follow up...
It is unlikely that it will reach Head office.
Your company cannot invoke a grievance procedure against you, it has to be under disciplinary procedures.
Seems to me mate, that they have cocked it right up.
Personally I would take them to the cleaners.
Get the old grievance procedure going and only settle for status quo ante, and a couple of weeks extra pay for personal suffering.
You will be surprised what you can squeeze out of them.
Head Office will not like this case...........lol

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Hi Johnboy

Thanks for the info. They suspended me and gave me an information leaflet that said it was not disciplinary action but was being carried out under the disciplinary procedure. Its said the stages would be investigation followed by disciplinary interview if needed - nothing about grievance. They then didn't give me access to the staff handbook and I had to request this. As I said above, their policies clearly state that potential gross misconduct is dealt with under the Disciplinary Policy - in the Harassment Policy it says potential gross misconduct is also dealt with under Disciplinary Policy. There are no timescales mentioned in any policies and the person who received the grievance and is now also investigating it is not impartial. In essence they from having studied their policies they have jumped the gun - suspended me before investigating a grievance which they now admit is not gross misconduct. The HR Rep even said to me that the only time the Disciplinary Policy would be used is if I had hit someone or pinned them up against a wall. They thought they could get rid of me with these allegations, now realise they have no substance, and even if they did they can be blamed as much if not more than me, but ultimately do not want me to come back. I asked via email why am I suspended if it is a grievance you are still investigating and it isn't gross misconduct. I got a holding response but to date still no answer. I have stated I have lost confidence in the process and it is not impartial - just ignored it. They have made a mess and don't know how to get out of it. It is now 13 weeks since I was suspended.

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

They don't want me anywhere near Head Office - I have been complaining for two years about the way I have been treated, excluded from meetings, no job description, demoted last year etc. I also know a lot of other things that people have been up to. By dropping it down to the grievance process they keep it in our area as the agreement was if it went to a disciplinary investigation and hearing after their initial 'fact-finding' that someone from Head Office would take control - their worst nightmare as I could say what I wanted. I am indeed intending to make their life extremely difficult now - cleaners are being visited tomorrow.

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

They have also offered to negotiate a severance package at any stage because of what I know

[Johnboy007]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Hi,
Request copies of their procedures and do it in writing.
Say you cannot get them from your place of work, despite requesting them.
Send it by recorded, signed for post, and keep the post office receipt.
Mark your envelope 'Private & Confidential', and send it to The Managing Director, at your companies head office.
That should invoke a response...
Managing Directors do not like to be bothered with trivialities, something that lower management should have sorted out.
I will repeat to you, that a company do not invoke a grievance procedure with employees.
That procedure is for employees, including anyone lower than the CEO.
A company can only invoke a disciplinary procedure for alleged Gross Misconduct.
You stated quote;
The HR Rep even said to me that the only time the Disciplinary Policy would be used is if I had hit someone or pinned them up against a wall.
This simply is not true. If you gave away company secrets or security secrets, they would invoke a disciplinary procedure against you for Gross Misconduct.
As I said my friend, write to the managing Director, for the policies, it will certainly get someone's arse a kicking...
Good luck.aw:

[Johnboy007]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

They have also offered to negotiate a severance package at any stage because of what I know

Try five times your annual salary...... lol

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Problem is I am quite high up in the organisation - only two levels above me. I have all their policies and having read them they can only suspend me under the Disciplinary Policy. The complaints people put in against me were treated as Disciplinary until all of a sudden they are now grievances. Yet my suspension has continued under the Grievance Policy, which they cannot do.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Problem is I am quite high up in the organisation - only two levels above me. I have all their policies and having read them they can only suspend me under the Disciplinary Policy. The complaints people put in against me were treated as Disciplinary until all of a sudden they are now grievances. Yet my suspension has continued under the Grievance Policy, which they cannot do.

Hi,
Complaints made by people against you, would be classed as grievances.
Any punishment made by your employer, even a mild ticking off, is a disciplinary action and comes under the disciplinary procedure.
Under recognised procedures, only your immediate superior ( and I use that term loosely ) can deal with any case, unless it states different in the procedure.
The company cannot alter their action from a Disciplinary to a Grievance, once that action has started.
If they try to do that, they are in breach of procedure and its case dismissed, status quo ante.
In fact that should be the only defence you need if that has happened.
Complaints made are grievances.
Actions taken by the company are under the disciplinary procedure.
It's simple really.
Give your company enough rope, and yes, they will hang themselves.
aw:

[pablo55]

Re: Suspended for a grievance?

Hi,
Complaints made by people against you, would be classed as grievances.
Any punishment made by your employer, even a mild ticking off, is a disciplinary action and comes under the disciplinary procedure.
Under recognised procedures, only your immediate superior ( and I use that term loosely ) can deal with any case, unless it states different in the procedure.
The company cannot alter their action from a Disciplinary to a Grievance, once that action has started.
If they try to do that, they are in breach of procedure and its case dismissed, status quo ante.
In fact that should be the only defence you need if that has happened.
Complaints made are grievances.
Actions taken by the company are under the disciplinary procedure.
It's simple really.
Give your company enough rope, and yes, they will hang themselves.
aw:

Thanks for for the help. Saw solicitor today and he can't quite believe what they are doing - thinks they will get 'crucified and destroyed' if it goes to a tribunal. He seems quite happy they are making such a mess of it. Submitting a grievance about it tomorrow so fireworks will really start then!