suspended from work

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

Your only permitted to have a colleague or a union rep accompany you in disciplinary meetings. Though your entitled to seek legal advice prior and after the meeting, even if the solicitor is not permitted to attend the disciplinary meeting.

I find it strange the union won't represent you and its likely a breach of your membership agreement - Unions have solicitors that can give you free legal advice as well.

Are you saying they are basing the mileage on Google maps, rather than your actual mileage traveled?

[millymay]

Re: suspended from work

sorry the date i got diagnostic assessment done was 20th April 2014 what they said my manager that is .. the recommendations for support had more or less said i couldn't do the job iv been doing for 11 years as the recommended support said i needed a sky blue colored overlay for prose reading assistance in comprehensions of written material forms reports ect . assistance in format and key points and spelling in the writing of any reports .. i don't really need spelling assistance i no as long as they can read what iv wrote .arithmetic the recommendations are all workings and presentations of calculations need to be demonstrated by example format, and a person allocated to guide and check numerical presentations if a correct calculation is arrived at, the figures may then be transposed in the process of writing the answer down. work related meetings and instructions due to slow processing and difficulty with concentration and retention of heard information meetings require handling with sensitivity, allowing time to provide pressured responses. dos all this make me sound thick even my union rep said it dos ...

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

What you need as an overlay is one of these rulers (http://www.dyslexic.com/crossbow-edu...eading-rulers/) so you can place the ruler over the area to check what you have put etc. at £12.95 for a pack they will have an impossible task of proving to a judge that the cost was unreasonable so they had to let you go!!

Add that to the letter!! and print out a copy of the webpage i linked to! Also the A4 size overlays are only £4.95 but obviously they are bigger so a ruler that would fit in your handbag easily would be the better of the two options.

Albert Einstein was dyslexic, are they saying he also would not be capable of working for the council - !! Point being, your council employer is talking out of their backside, if they say it makes you thick, then they are also saying Einstein was thick too - Which we all no he was not thick at all as his IQ was 160 i believe, my own is around 130, and i assume your IQ is more than the national average too.

heres list of famous people (including Einstein) that suffer(ed) from dyslexia http://www.dyslexia.com/famous.htm

[bluebottle]

Re: suspended from work

sorry the date i got diagnostic assessment done was 20th April 2014 what they said my manager that is .. the recommendations for support had more or less said i couldn't do the job iv been doing for 11 years as the recommended support said i needed a sky blue colored overlay for prose reading assistance in comprehensions of written material forms reports ect . assistance in format and key points and spelling in the writing of any reports .. i don't really need spelling assistance i no as long as they can read what iv wrote .arithmetic the recommendations are all workings and presentations of calculations need to be demonstrated by example format, and a person allocated to guide and check numerical presentations if a correct calculation is arrived at, the figures may then be transposed in the process of writing the answer down. work related meetings and instructions due to slow processing and difficulty with concentration and retention of heard information meetings require handling with sensitivity, allowing time to provide pressured responses. dos all this make me sound thick even my union rep said it dos ...

If what you have been told by the specialists who carried out the dyslexia/dyscalculia assessment is correct, your employers are, in my opinion, playing with fire. My gut-feeling is that if this went before a court or ET, your employers would be shown as desperate, small-minded, vindictive, inept and non-compliant with a number of legal matters.

Before becoming disabled 3.5 years ago, apart from the time I spent as a policeman, I worked with people with all sorts of disabilities, including those that come under the umbrella of learning difficulties. If my memory serves me correctly, dyslexia is a neurological disorder. The coloured overlay is something I have come across and there are some people affected by dyslexia who wear spectacles with coloured lenses to help them perform certain tasks. A friend of mine who, like myself, is ex-police and, like you, has dyslexia, wears spectacles with different coloured lenses for different tasks. They have made a difference.

Your employer would be better going back through your expenses claims with you, taking account of your dyslexia, and correcting any errors, not behaving as if you have raided a bank. They are, in my view, behaving in the most appalling manner and I have a feeling this is going to blow up in their faces, no matter how much they try to make you out to be some sort of ogre. Commonsense should tell them that is the more sensible course of action. However, it appears they have left their commonsense at home or have none whatsoever.

[millymay]

Re: suspended from work

yes that's what there basing my mileage on .. google maps it is lot of miles though as they said this could be a police matter im really scared .. if they had done the checks like it said in there rules and guidance book. A nd then told me about it then i would of been able to check and re check my self to get it right ....

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

Agree with you totally bluebottle - What they are doing is no different to disciplining and sacking a woman for taking to many loo breaks as a direct result of being pregnant!! I say that as an example of another protected characteristic under the equality act!

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

yes that's what there basing my mileage on .. google maps it is lot of miles though as they said this could be a police matter im really scared .. if they had done the checks like it said in there rules and guidance book. A nd then told me about it then i would of been able to check and re check my self to get it right ....

I'd love to see them prove in court that the mileage based on their Google maps directions from point A to point B was the actual millage traveled, our in fact the same route taken by yourself! Basically they'd find it impossible to prove that you took the same route as the one Google Map shows, as they could well be 4-5 different routes you could have taken.

There system for accounting for mileage is seriously flawed, they breached their own policy for not checking up on your mileage as you stated previously, and as you said before is based on trust. The best method is for the millage to be written down at start of day and at end of the day and the difference being the total millage per day, off course break times would have to be taken in to account too if you do any driving during breaks. The only other alternative is for them to have GPS tracking that can be turned off at end of shift and at break times, to track your mileage.

They will find that if they compared all their employees mileage to that of Google maps, that majority of employees mileage would be greater than Google maps results.

[bluebottle]

Re: suspended from work

I'd love to see them prove in court that the mileage based on their Google maps directions from point A to point B was the actual millage traveled, our in fact the same route taken by yourself! Basically they'd find it impossible to prove that you took the same route as the one Google Map shows, as they could well be 4-5 different routes you could have taken.

There system for accounting for mileage is seriously flawed, they breached their own policy for not checking up on your mileage as you stated previously, and as you said before is based on trust. The best method is for the millage to be written down at start of day and at end of the day and the difference being the total millage per day, off course break times would have to be taken in to account too if you do any driving during breaks. The only other alternative is for them to have GPS tracking that can be turned off at end of shift and at break times, to track your mileage.

They will find that if they compared all their employees mileage to that of Google maps, that majority of employees mileage would be greater than Google maps results.

Couldn't agree more, TB. I have yet to see case law where data extracted from Google Maps has been admitted into evidence and a court has ruled such evidence can be admitted. As stated above, the OP's employer is playing with the equivalent a jerrycan of kerosene. And we all know how volatile kerosene can be.

[davec1960]

Re: suspended from work

I told my union rep that i was going to get legal advice, she said if i get legal advice then the union could not represent me.

my miles claimed for week 1 was 72 but they have it as 27 week 2 miles claimed 108 they have it as 59.4 and so on every week ive claimed is higher than they say miles done.

It is normal for the union to refuse to provide legal representation if you have engaged the services of a solicitor so don't do it. You have paid your union subs so make use of the union resources.

writing 72 instead of 27 is an easily explained error.

what isn't easy to explain is how your errors are always high and none are low. It is understandable that your employer has reacted as they have.
Check over your previous claims to see if you really have always made errors that are higher. A claim of 25 that should have been 52 for example would give strength to the claim of mistakes.

[millymay]

Re: suspended from work

Its been a while since i have been on here, but i am still waiting for another meeting with work... They have sent me the minuets of my last meeting but they have not put in a few conversation.. IE when they said they nearly fell off the chair laughing when they read the report about me having dyslexia they said the report made me out to be stupid .. but they say my work didn't reflect this and said all other areas of my work were very good .. and so the report of me being dyslexic didn't do me any favors .. and other conversations were missing .. i have sent it back with a letter saying that i would not sign the draft as it was not a true reflection on what was said in the meeting and ive put in the missing conversations .. my last meeting with them was the 25th April is it normal to have to wait this long ?

[millymay]

Re: suspended from work

i have just received the minuets from the last meeting i had 25th April.. but there was no mention of them saying that the report of my dyslexia made them fall of a chair laughing and that it made me look stupid as as far as they were concerned it was not a true reflection of my work as all other areas of my work was very good .. so ive sent it back saying that i would not sign it and i explained why and as them to put in the missing conversations ..

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

Millymay - Their not going to put what they said about your dyslexia in official minutes, that be the equivalent to shooting oneself in the foot with a nuclear warhead. Though asking them to why it was not their and refusing to sign was a good move, as it gives grounds to believe that the minutes were not accurate or did not reflect everything that was said. So ball is in their court now, as you have no doubt hit the nail on the head by specifically as about those particular comments being missing. They will off course dispute them ever being said, but it will also make them think about their situation and whether they should risk taking further action and face possible legal/tribunal action for breach of the equality act 2010.

Next time you have any meetings with them, as they may likely request one to discuss your reasons for not signing the minutes. You should record the meeting, whether you do that secretly or openly is up to you. I don't normally recommend it, but i would say do it secretly as the recording can then be sent to the employer with a written warning basically telling them you have them by the balls in regards to their complete disregard for the equality act 2010 and the way they have discriminated, and bullied you over your legitimate disability. A written transcript of the recording can be used at tribunal too.

[cupidstunt]

Re: suspended from work

;-)

Ok I bow to you , you are a hero.

I'm not bitter and I do have E T experience, my post was concerning a second claim against the same employer.

Not to keep hijacking this thread, but I'm not sure it's the best advice to keep quoting the Employer will feel the weight of the tribunal. From my limited experience with the largest organisation in its field in the UK and the fourth largest in the world, they arent worried.

It all sounds great when the points are put across from one side, untill the respondent gets their turn.

I don't remember stating all the thousands of cases lost, if I did then it was a turn of phase as you are right I don't have that information.

The first hurdle is getting it conceded that a claimant has a disability and as you will know it has to have a substantial effect on your life. Of course not taking into account the ones that are automatically accepted cancer etc.

I believe if you look back it was you that started being hostile and I only mentioned that the OP should not have false hope in the ET system.

It seems that as I have another view that doesn't agree with yours then I should keep it too myself, is that fair on the OP.

No disrespect meant to millymay and I honestly mean that, but I don't think she would fair(fare?) too well on her own if she is getting in a muddle completing mileage returns. It gets very frustrating with the respondent chipping away at your allegations cmd and preliminary hearings again and again, you just wish they would let the main event start and just argue it all then.

But if you are going to help her all the way through, then she may have a chance, if she has to pay for legal representation I still stand by my claim that she would break even.

Finally ( I hope) My post that you referred to, wasn't asking for help it was more an enquiry as to whether anyone personally had a happy ending from an ET, people started asking questions and I gave a few details, not the whole story as I wasn't after help.

Also if Millymay is going to use the ET she must be mindful of time limits, I don't remember you pointing that out.

Are we done now?

[teaboy2]

Re: suspended from work

;-)

Ok I bow to you , you are a hero. - I take that as being said in jest as am far from a being a hero, am no different anyone else on this forum with exception to my knowledge and experience.

I'm not bitter and I do have E T experience, my post was concerning a second claim against the same employer. So you had an earlier thread regarding an earlier claim to ET against same employer? I was not aware of that. But my point was that i personally have help hundreds of people in the last few years with employment issues, some went to tribunal maybe less than a handful. Some settled prior to hearing whilst the rest either settled amicably before the need to issue a claim or even back tracked and reinstated or ceased all actions and made the necessary improvements to their procedures etc.

Not to keep hijacking this thread, but I'm not sure it's the best advice to keep quoting the Employer will feel the weight of the tribunal. From my limited experience with the largest organisation in its field in the UK and the fourth largest in the world, they arent worried.

But experience from my perspective shows it is a very heavy weight and powerful tool to threat the use off as a last resort to try am get the employer to see sense and in vast majority of cases it works. Most employers back down way before the need to us the Tribunal card, but some can be very reluctant. Size can make a company very over confident, as they think they can throw money at it and make it go away, i have taken down some very large companies myself you know (both helping other employment wise and over personal and business matters), consider those companies are the ones with the most employees and therefore its their employees that seek employment advice the most.

It all sounds great when the points are put across from one side, untill the respondent gets their turn.

Thats why people need to get good solid advice and tell the person advising them everything, even the most irrelevant past issues with the employer, as employers will use anything to discredit you. So its about how well prepared and details your claim is and about making sure you have the evidence to support the man part of your claim. Most people fail, due to poor legal advice, or for being over confident and sticking purely to their word and/or not providing enough detailed arguments or evidence to support their claim.

I don't remember stating all the thousands of cases lost, if I did then it was a turn of phase as you are right I don't have that information.

it was either hundreds or thousands that you stated had lost claims. Mine and bluebottle points where that employers should take the equality act serious because they will be hit heavy in the pocket should they lose at tribunal (as per the 2 cases that where highlighted), should it get that far.

The first hurdle is getting it conceded that a claimant has a disability and as you will know it has to have a substantial effect on your life. Of course not taking into account the ones that are automatically accepted cancer etc.

Actually a disability does not have to have a substantial effect on your life, it merely has to be physical or mental disability to be a protected characteristic. Plus you will need to show either that the employer has failed to protect you from being bullied/harassed (missy was, even if it was just one instance) over your disability, or failed to make reasonable adjustments (in missy's case, it would cost £13 to provide her with a reading aid for her to fill in forms with).

I believe if you look back it was you that started being hostile and I only mentioned that the OP should not have false hope in the ET system.

No i wasn't being hostile, my first responds was polite as i thought your original post was not constructive and just an unhelpful opinion, in response to my reply to your post you stated "Oh dear, did I hit a nerve" as the very first sentence, that served to antagonise only, then in your last sentence "Go and do something useful.........make the tea" which was very offensive since i am doing something useful and helping and advising members seeking help on the forum, not to mention the discriminatory tone of the last sentence. Our job here is not to discourage people from enforcing their rights but to support, regardless of what they choose to do, and let them make the decision on what step they wish to take, should it come to having to issue a tribunal claim.

It seems that as I have another view that doesn't agree with yours then I should keep it too myself, is that fair on the OP.

I didn't say you shouldn't post your opinion or view, even if it is opposite to mine, i have no problem with any one posting their opinion of view, so long as its constructive - Its when a person is being disrespectful, hostile/offensive towards myself of other members that i take issue with. And you where coming across as being disrespectful towards me and having an attitude towards me for some reason.

If you had said as your first post what you said a couple of sentences above "I only mentioned that the OP should not have false hope in the ET system." or along those lines, instead of the way you had actually worded it, then it would have been more constructive, so if that was truely what you meant, then perhaps maybe you could have worded your original post better! As i have no issue with anyone pointing out the pitfalls, so to speak, in a constructive manner like you are doing now.

No disrespect meant to millymay and I honestly mean that, but I don't think she would fair(fare?) too well on her own if she is getting in a muddle completing mileage returns. It gets very frustrating with the respondent chipping away at your allegations cmd and preliminary hearings again and again, you just wish they would let the main event start and just argue it all then.

True she may struggle if her dyslexia effects her when reading words, but it sounds like its just numbers, but there is help available and off course if she lives in the Yorkshire area, i will be more then willing to attend with her if need be, but i doubt it will get that far once the employer realises their way out of their depth.

But if you are going to help her all the way through, then she may have a chance, if she has to pay for legal representation I still stand by my claim that she would break even.

Finally ( I hope) My post that you referred to, wasn't asking for help it was more an enquiry as to whether anyone personally had a happy ending from an ET, people started asking questions and I gave a few details, not the whole story as I wasn't after help.

I think the reason people started asking questions is because like me they thought from your original post in your own thread that you were seeking advice and not asking a specific question.

Also if Millymay is going to use the ET she must be mindful of time limits, I don't remember you pointing that out.

Haven't needed to point out time limits yet as one their has not yet been the last course of action, i.e. outcome of her disciplinary. So basically the time limit clock has not yet started ticking, so time is more than on millys side. It helps to not overload the person seeking advice with information so as to not worry them or course them additional pressure. That's why i like to get as much information, facts, and evidence as possible and then give tell the person what write in a letter to the employer. Might take just the 1 letter, sometimes 2 or 3, the third (or second if time is short) being the letter before action, thought the other letters make it clear such action is possible. You'd be surprised how well it works.

Are we done now?

Yes the dispute is done and dusted now and am glad we are back to being amicable and respectful discussion.

If you still need a bit of help with your own claim or employment issue, let me know. As now where back to amicable levels am willing to help you if you would like the help.

[cupidstunt]

Re: suspended from work

Thank you Sir, I do appreciate your experience and good nature to help people.

I can come across as abrupt and was possibly having a bad day and apologise for being rude.

Milly, I also apologise to you for interrupting at a time that must be very distressing to you and wish you all the best.