Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearing

[des8]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

It's too simplistic to state "stress is not a disability"(post 14)

Potentially any mental impairment is covered by the DDA as the definition of disability is legal rather than medical (except for HIV, Cancer and MS). A court decides by considering if a persons mental health condition has long term substantial adverse effect on daily activities.

[TomWoods]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

So is everyone agreed that victimisation only applies to people with protected characteristics and if they want to treat me badly and unequally to other people there is nothing that I can do about it under the law? E.g. that other people did much more serious things which our customer complained about but got much lighter treatment? Or that they denied me the legal right to have a union rep. at the hearing?

It now sounds like I have no comeback at all and should just go to the meeting tomorrow and kiss their asses.

[wales01man]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

Go and fight your case tomorrow if you have joined the union they should advise you on the legality of their refusal Just be honest in your answers unfortunately if they wont to stitch you up they will try to and then you must go from there
Good Luck

[Harmonica]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

So is everyone agreed that victimisation only applies to people with protected characteristics and if they want to treat me badly and unequally to other people there is nothing that I can do about it under the law? E.g. that other people did much more serious things which our customer complained about but got much lighter treatment? Or that they denied me the legal right to have a union rep. at the hearing?

It now sounds like I have no comeback at all and should just go to the meeting tomorrow and kiss their asses.

Employment law is harsh and always changing. If you say that you are being treated less favourably than other people the law does not care unless you can prove that it is as a consequence of a protected characteristic or because you raised legitimate health and safety/public interest concerns.

If your company has an equality policy or a disciplinary policy that says something like "we are committed to treating staff consistently and with respect" then you might say that in treating you less favourably than others they have breached the employment contract because those policies will be contractually binding.

Although an employer will usually say that they did deal with people more harshly that you think but because of confidentiality they cannot go into the specifics of another persons disciplinary issues. You may know that they're talking cobblers but you'd need to be able to prove it.

[Harmonica]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

It's too simplistic to state "stress is not a disability"(post 14)

Potentially any mental impairment is covered by the DDA as the definition of disability is legal rather than medical (except for HIV, Cancer and MS). A court decides by considering if a persons mental health condition has long term substantial adverse effect on daily activities.

The Equalities Act 2010 is now the relevant legislation. The DDA is no more. Stress is very unlikely to be proven to be a disability but in the right circumstances it could be I suppose.

[cupidstunt]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

I think stress is seen as a symptom rather than an illness,

Had this explained to me by an OHS doctor when I wrongly said a certificate stated stress, when in fact it had said depression. Apparently it was one of his pet hates ;-).

[TomWoods]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

Stress is an illness although it may be a symptom of other things as many other illnesses are. If you work your knee so many times and it gets a problem you have an illness, if you work your brain too many times in the wrong way you have another illness. There is a mixture of genes and environment at pla as with any illness / disability .

Anyway I don't want to talk about this, only legal stuff or rules/

[bluebottle]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

Stress, if not kept within manageable limits, can be very dangerous, leading to heart attacks and strokes as well as causing lasting psychological injury. Health and Safety Inspectors can serve an Improvement Notice on an employer for a MINIMUM of 12 months where they expose employees to unnecessary stress and fail to address it.

Creative stress, which we all need to keep us healthy, does not fall within the above, but the sort of stress the OP refers to is sometimes known as Bad or Destructive Stress and with good reason.

[des8]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

In my earlier post 16 I inadvertently referred to DDA instead of Equality Act 2010. (I attribute the error to sheer habit and advancing years)

Schedule 1 of that Act makes it clear that any condition that causes long term impairment is a disability (I have paraphrased).

Bluebottle's description illustrates the potential of stress to cause other serious health problems.

The Act though (except for HIV, cancer and MS) does not list any particular conditions as being disabilities, which is why I said it is a legal rather than medical description. The claimant has to prove, not that he has a particular condition, but that he has a condition which causes a substantial adverse effect on a his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

The argument is not whether or not stress is a disability, but whether or not this person is able to carry out normal activities.

[bluebottle]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

The attached document is from Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD) and is aimed at employers, explaining their responsibilities where stress is concerned in plain English. Some of the court cases stated have eye-watering sums in damages for stress.

Hope this helps.

[Harmonica]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

Don't be misled by those sums awarded for damages. They are the exceptions that prove the rule. Stress claims are the most difficult of all personal injury claims to win. It is nigh on impossible to get a personal injury solicitor to take on a stress/psychological injury claim on a no win no fee basis because they know that they are very rarely successful.

The threshold of evidence required to prove psychological injury is ridiculously high. The solicitor has to get consultant psychiatrists to testify to the existence of a recognised psychiatric condition and say that it was caused by a negligent employer. This is neither easy or cheap. That doesn't mean to say that such cases are not winnable.

Good luck Tom.

[bluebottle]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

Harmonica,

The cases highlighted are cases where the employer did not comply with their duty of care to the employee.

In the Green v Deutsche Bank case, three consultant psychiatrists - one acting for the claimant, one acting for the defendant and one appointed by the court - all concluded and agreed that the extent of psychological injury and damage was such that the claimant would never be able to work again. Given the circumstances, the defendant received a just decision.

Also, bear in mind the judgements in the Majrowski case and the Michelak case, in which damages of £250k and £4.1m were awarded. In the Michelak case, two managers were each ordered to pay £20k and £30k, respectively, out of their own pockets.

There is no getting away from the fact that stress can cause a lot of damage to someone, both physically and psychologically. Employers need to take it seriously and ensure workplace stress levels are kept within manageable levels and so that it does not adversely affect employees' physical and/or mental health.

[Harmonica]

Re: Employer saying I don't have right to Union Representative at Disciplinary Hearin

I agree fully with you