Freelance non-payment question

[liam27]

Hi there, I am in need of some advice regarding non-payment for some work I did on a freelance basis. The work was promotional, involving lots of social media usage on a large and high-profile scale.

My work was completed in August 2013 so in my case I am now in the fifth month of non-payment. My follow-ups and questioning of the non-payment has been polite and friendly, but now I am at a stage where I have run out of patience.

I was hired by (Person A) to do the work; this work was outsourced from an external company (Company). Upon starting the work, I had an email entitled "Agreement confirmation" from Person A which provided details of my role expectations and the pay I would receive upon completion of the work.

Upon successful completion of the work (which I was thanked for and told had met all criteria), within about two weeks it became clear there would be an issue with payment. Person A (the person who hired me to do the work) said that they had not received payment from Company, and consequently were not able/in a position to pay me. Despite multiple reassurances, five months later this remains their stance - they cannot pay me because Company has not paid them.

However, my agreement was never with Company - it was always with Person A - and at no point was it ever subject to, or dependent on, their own settlement.

I have saved, recorded and backed up all correspondence with Person A over the last five months.

I am now at a stage where, having consulted Citizen's Advice, I have written to Person A (via email) as a Letter Before Notice, outlining my intention to pursue the non-payment legally. It is my intention to open a claim in a small court to force payment.

What I would like to know is: if anyone reading has been in this situation before, and whether or not there is anything I am missing, before I take this to a small court claim. Would I be likely to win this case?

Added info, and perhaps to complicate matters: the proof of a large proportion of my work lies on Twitter. I have changed the password of the Twitter account in question, to protect my work from being tampered with, or deleted. I feel I may need this account to be active as proof of completion of my work (I have also taken screenshots). Person A is now requesting the password for this account, citing needing access in order to pursue Company's payment, and I am yet to respond. My question to Person A is; if they needed the Twitter password in order to pursue Company's payment, why hasn't this password been requested previously, in the last five months? Could I be in trouble for withholding this Twitter password simply because I don't trust/believe the reasons it is required for?

Many thanks in advance for any help that could be given.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

What might be the effect on the company if it were to become public knowledge:

• that the social media output was purely promotional, or
• that the company does not pay for work done?

Of course, one question that should be answered is what relationship did person A have with the company? Was person A paid for his work?

[liam27]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

What might be the effect on the company if it were to become public knowledge:

• that the social media output was purely promotional, or
• that the company does not pay for work done?

Of course, one question that should be answered is what relationship did person A have with the company? Was person A paid for his work?

Hi, thanks for the reply. I think it was clear, and always the intention, that the social media output was promotional - it was for a specific event, and then ceased after the event had happened.

To clarify, my issue is with Person A rather than the Company. Person A has not been paid for their work by the Company and is saying that, as a result, can not pay me. However, my issue that is that my agreement was with Person A on a freelance basis, and not the Company. The Company's failure to pay Person A should not affect me.

[MissFM]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Hi, thanks for the reply. I think it was clear, and always the intention, that the social media output was promotional - it was for a specific event, and then ceased after the event had happened.

To clarify, my issue is with Person A rather than the Company. Person A has not been paid for their work by the Company and is saying that, as a result, can not pay me. However, my issue that is that my agreement was with Person A on a freelance basis, and not the Company. The Company's failure to pay Person A should not affect me.

Liam, I recognise this situation. People seem to find it far too easy not to honour obligations to pay creative people for work commissioned.

In your case, you do seem to have the evidence to support your claim and I don't see how it could fail in court.

Does person A have the cash in their own right to pay you if you get the CCJ (or are they struggling?)?

As regards the twatter a/c - why not suggest that they ask you for screen shots of any exchange they need?

I hope you have backed it all up anyway.

Others on here are far more competent with digital issues and can advise you much better on this aspect.

As an aside, I have learnt through bitter experience to approach commissions on a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 basis (ie agree the fee, 1/3 paid on acceptance, 1/3 halfway through, and the final third upon completion).

I know it's not much help, but hope maybe a little x

[liam27]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Thank you so much for your reply.

Liam, I recognise this situation. People seem to find it far too easy not to honour obligations to pay creative people for work commissioned.

In your case, you do seem to have the evidence to support your claim and I don't see how it could fail in court.

Good. I hoped so.

Does person A have the cash in their own right to pay you if you get the CCJ (or are they struggling?)?

I would have no idea. They are saying not, but (for as bad as it sounds), that's not my concern...

As regards the twatter a/c - why not suggest that they ask you for screen shots of any exchange they need?

This has developed today and they are threatening me that withholding the password could be in breach of intellectual property laws. I'm really not sure what to do.

[MissFM]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Thank you so much for your reply.

You are most welcome



Good. I hoped so.



I would have no idea. They are saying not, but (for as bad as it sounds),that's not my concern...

Actually it is because getting the judgment is the easy part. You still have to get the money, which might not be forthcoming.



This has developed today and they are threatening me that withholding the password could be in breach of intellectual property laws. I'm really not sure what to do.

Do you want to post up your contract (personal info deleted) for the interweb savvy here to look at?

replies in red :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

I also do digital freelance work and have had the experience of not getting paid for various reasons.

I'd say as long as you have all the paperwork you mention, you should be able to submit a claim in the small claims court. You say you have already sent a letter before action, so the next step would be to issue the claim. I resorted to that route once in 2001 after a client of a client (a similar situation to yours from what you say) received an email from me not intended for him, he was very upset and said "no court in the land will make me pay you", however, as soon as he saw the claim forms, he wrote a cheque! :grin: :grin: :grin: :wof: :wof: :wof:

That works with some people who'd do anything to avoid a CCJ, however, with others, even obtaining a CCJ doesn't do much good, you then have to look at ways of enforcing the judgment.

Are they individuals you're dealing with and not a limited company?

"Breach of intellectual property laws" is a much overused term. It all depends on what the terms of the contract are, having said that, even then, they are presumably also breaching a contract by not paying you... :noidea:

Intellectual property law is a lot more complicated than money claims, suing someone for IP breaches is nowhere nearly as straightforward and would require specialist advice. :nerd:

[TUTTSI]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

If the sum owed to you is more than Ł750 you could issue a stat demand. You have fulfilled your contract with A and whether A has received the payment or not is not your problem. You did not have an agreement only to be paid once A had been paid.

Going through the small claims court could drag on for many months.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Issuing a Statutory Demand would be inexpensive and quick; furthermore, from the facts presented, it would appear that Person A would have difficulty getting the SD set aside.

However, the next step - presenting the bankruptcy petition - would not be inexpensive and, if Person A was asset poor, it might not succeed in enforcing the debt.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Issuing a Statutory Demand would be inexpensive and quick; furthermore, from the facts presented, it would appear that Person A would have difficulty getting the SD set aside.

As long as they don't read this forum and find out about Cel... :grin:

However, the next step - presenting the bankruptcy petition - would not be inexpensive and, if Person A was asset poor, it might not succeed in enforcing the debt.

That was precisely the reason I didn't suggest that route, because making someone BR is only worth it if a) the debt is large and b) there are good prospects of getting your money back. In most cases, you wouldn't. Having said that, not all SDs are followed by petitions, are they? They are well known 'debt collection' tools. I know a few DCAs have been reprimanded for using them for that purpose and not following up with petitions, however, I can't see a non-CCL licensed individual being reprimanded by anyone.

I gues there's always good old MCOL if that attempt fails... :noidea:

[liam27]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

I also do digital freelance work and have had the experience of not getting paid for various reasons.

sorry to hear that

I'd say as long as you have all the paperwork you mention, you should be able to submit a claim in the small claims court. You say you have already sent a letter before action, so the next step would be to issue the claim. I resorted to that route once in 2001 after a client of a client (a similar situation to yours from what you say) received an email from me not intended for him, he was very upset and said "no court in the land will make me pay you", however, as soon as he saw the claim forms, he wrote a cheque! :grin: :grin: :grin: :wof: :wof: :wof:

I have all the paperwork and evidence that I need, I believe.

Are they individuals you're dealing with and not a limited company?

Yes, two individuals.

"Breach of intellectual property laws" is a much overused term. It all depends on what the terms of the contract are, having said that, even then, they are presumably also breaching a contract by not paying you... :noidea:

Intellectual property law is a lot more complicated than money claims, suing someone for IP breaches is nowhere nearly as straightforward and would require specialist advice. :nerd:

They are throwing a lot of terms at me that I don't understand, which I believe is more of an attempt to scare me than anything substantial. Person A has no more right to the password than I do, and I have offered to provide the password to the Company involved rather than Person A.

I have not heard of a stat demand and have no idea if that would be more beneficial to me in this context. I had only considered a small court claim as my next way forward. I will research a stat demand now, but I am very happy to have it explained to me in my context...

Thank you.

[MissFM]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Sounds like willy-waggling, Liam - but the Fiery Parrot knows what she is talking about on all these fronts so please do wait for her to come back and heed her wisdom x

[wales01man]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Ok they get a SD and its not set aside so then the OP goes to bankrupt the debtor ?and the cost to the OP is?????/

[MissFM]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

Ok they get a SD and its not set aside so then the OP goes to bankrupt the debtor ?and the cost to the OP is?????/

That was exactly my point earlier, Wales. But FP seems to have some very good lateral strategies - and if such exist, I'm sure she will find them for the OP

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Freelance non-payment question

I have not heard of a stat demand and have no idea if that would be more beneficial to me in this context. I had only considered a small court claim as my next way forward. I will research a stat demand now, but I am very happy to have it explained to me in my context...

Thank you.

A statutory demand is a document that can be sent to a debtor who will have 21 days to settle the debt or make a suitable arrangement to pay, otherwise the creditor can go on to petition their bankruptcy. I was a bit tied up all day today but will be back tomorrow.

You may want to take a look at this for reference: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...statdemand.pdf

Ok they get a SD and its not set aside so then the OP goes to bankrupt the debtor ?and the cost to the OP is?????/

That was the reason I didn't suggest this route in the first place, not to mention the fact that there's no guarantee of getting anything out of the BR, the OP has no way of knowing how much more debt they have. :noidea:

However, SDs can be useful to put pressure on people, as we all know: http://www.mayowynnebaxter.co.uk/blo...utory-demands/

if a Debtor simply refuses to pay a debt which is undisputedly due, Statutory Demands work. The mere threat of personal insolvency still strikes fear into the heart of most people.