New and looking for employment advice please

[Shirley]

eep: Hi everyone, I`m new and looking for some employment advice please :-)
My son works for a company who hardly ever give him wage slips and have just informed him, that over the Christmas period, they over paid him £600.00. They now want to take it back at £200.00 per week and have just taken the first payment, which has only left him with £79.00 to live on for this week. Can they do this? surely they have left him with less than the minimum wage to live on! One employee reckons that it was in fact a banking error, paying everyone double of what they should have got, how does he stand on this please. They say "well if you have the money in the bank to cover it, it should`nt be a problem, but that is not the point. He did have the £200 but like I say, as they have now taken that, he is now unable to pay any standing orders etc. Thank you in advance for reading this, I look forward to your replies :-)

[Amethyst]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

Payslips must show earnings before and after any deductions, explain any deductions and show how the wage is paid.
Deductions

Employers must explain any fixed deductions from a person’s wages, eg trade union subscriptions. They must do this either on a payslip, or in a separate written statement.

This separate statement must be sent out before the first payslip. Employers must update this every year.

Apart from any legal deductions like tax or National Insurance, employers can’t make any deductions from wages unless either:

they’re in the employment contract
the employee has said in writing that they accept the deduction before it’s made


from: - https://www.gov.uk/payslips

This is also useful from https://www.gov.uk/understanding-you...-from-your-pay
--------------------------------------------------------
If you work in retail (eg shops, restaurants)

Your employer can’t take more than 10% from your gross pay (pay before tax and National Insurance) each pay period to cover any shortfalls.

Example

There’s a shortfall of £50 in your till and your employer wants to deduct this from your earnings.

You’re paid £250 gross per week. Your employer can take 10% of your gross earnings, which is £25.

They must only take £25 one week and then make another deduction from your next pay cheque for £25.

If you leave your job, they can take the full amount owed from your final pay


--------------------------------------------------------------

What kind of employment is your son in ?
Does he have set hours or did he work a lot of overtime over the Christmas period ? Would he reasonably have expected to be paid more ?
Was the £600 paid over a number of weeks or in one go - ie. is it reasonable for him to have noticed the overpayment ?
Going off the above info from the gov.uk site they would only be able to take around £30 a week back for the overpayment (assuming he's paid £300 ish each week normally - guestimated from them taking £200 and leaving him with £79)

[enquirer]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

My son works for a company who hardly ever give him wage slips ...

Bad sign.

... and have just informed him, that over the Christmas period, they over paid him £600.00.

No payslips - no proof. If they want to argue, then perhaps they would appreciate an investigation by HMRC. Are they in financial trouble?

Your son would be wise to ask for a printout of his NI contribution record from the Pensions Service. I suspect that his NI and tax may not have been paid at all.

[Shirley]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

Hi, thanks for your reply :-)....He did not receive it in writing about it, they sent his boss an email and said they had over paid him and all the other employees & that they were taking the £200 without him agreeing to it. He works in engineering and gets paid weekly of around £300 if he is office based that week but if on site, he gets more. The week leading up to Christmas, they were office based and like I say, he does not get a wage slip, which to me is wrong. He`s just rang me and said, non of the other employees seem bothered about it as they want to keep their jobs, but obviously this sort of thing is wrong?

[Amethyst]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

Yes it is wrong.

Does your son have a contract of employment and how long has he worked for the company ?

Is he employed by the people who pay him or by his boss (eg. is he a subcontractor?)

He should get a payslip - in fact he is entitled to a payslip.

Section 8 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...-pay-statement ) “An employee has the right to be given by his employer, at or before the time at which any payment of wages or salary is made to him, a written itemised pay statement.”

As said he should check his NI contributions and tax is paid up. Lack of payslips can be a sign that tax/NI isn't being paid by the employer (which would obviously have consequences for your son further down the line if he needed to claim benefits etc)

[ostell]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

And could also be asked to pay any shortfall of tax and NI (though NI only for the current year).

[Shirley]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

Yes he is employed and does have a contract. He only started working for them 4 months ago and his wages are done by his boss here but sent to head office as they do the pay role

[Tools]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

In this age of austerity and belt-tightening, the need to ensure accurate financial management is crucial, but in the event that an employee mistakenly receives an overpayment of wages can an employer recover that and if so, how?
Employers should be cautious when considering deducting any amount from an employee's wages: the law protects individuals against unlawful deductions of wages and this right can be enforced by an Employment Tribunal.
There are also of course employee relations issues where an employer has to request a repayment of wages, but help is available for employers who make genuine mistakes.
The law

Employees and workers are protected from unlawful deductions of wages by section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (the Act) which prevents employers making deductions unless these are:

• required/authorised by statute,
• permitted by a provision of the employment contract, or
• where prior consent has been received from the employee.

Wages are defined in section 27(1) of the Act as any sums payable to the worker in connection with their employment including any fee, bonus, commission, holiday pay or other emolument referable to the worker's employment, whether payable under their contract or otherwise. Whilst other more specific elements such as statutory sick pay are also covered, the majority of payments made by an employer will be caught by this part of the definition.
Recovery

Overpayments can occur in a number of ways; genuine payroll errors and miscalculation of bonus/commission schemes to name just a few.
The easiest solution for the employer is if they can rely upon an express provision of the employment contract which permits corrections to be made where sums have been paid in error. However, where this is not available what can an employer do?
Section 14 of the Act provides an exemption to the unlawful deduction regime and permits deductions where there has been an overpayment of wages. This therefore enables an employer to correct any overpayment through the payroll process.
Things to consider

Whilst a deduction may be lawful by virtue section 14, employers should exercise caution in relation to the manner in which the deduction is implemented. Although the law imposes no limit in respect of the amount that is to be deducted from any single payment of wages, an overly hasty recovery process, particularly where the amount concerned is significant, could lead to problems.
The employer who fails to acknowledge a mistake and simply proceeds to rely on section 14 to recover without giving notice to the employee could be a breach of the implied term of trust and confidence (entitling the employee to resign and claim constructive dismissal).
An employer should seek to agree the repayment over a period of time and give the individual enough notice to make appropriate arrangements to prepare for the deductions to be made. Employers should not apply a deduction that leaves an individual with insufficient funds for them to be able to satisfy their financial commitments.
Employers should note that this route should not be used to make variations in salary as part of a cost savings exercise. Any unilateral variation in salary by an employer is likely to result in claims for unlawful deductions and/or constructive unfair dismissal.
National minimum wage implications?

Perhaps surprisingly, national minimum wage legislation (NMW) permits an employer to make deductions in relation to an accidental overpayment, even in circumstances where the deduction leaves the individual receiving less than the NMW might otherwise permit.
A final word of warning

Any employer who seeks to recover funds should note that any unlawful attempt to recover funds will prevent it from taking lawful steps to recover later on. For example, where an employer has made an advance of wages and unlawfully deducts that sum from the last payment following the employee's resignation, it will lose the entitlement to lawfully pursue the same amount at a later date in the civil courts.
Tips for employers

• Consider whether there is a clause allowing deductions in the event of a mistaken overpayment?
• Where this is not available, communicate with the employee as soon as possible to explain that a mistake has been made and agree the deduction with them.
• Where a mistake has accumulated over a number of years the sums involved are likely to be significant. Consult with the employee to agree a schedule of deductions taking into account the individual's financial obligations and living expenses before making any deductions from future wages.
• Proceed with caution where there is any potential dispute with the employee as the section 14 exemption from the unlawful deductions regime only applies to genuine overpayments of wages. For example, if the employer is purporting to exercise a claw back clause in the contract in respect of training costs the employee may seek to argue that such a clause is not enforceable.

Source http://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-r...over-3973.aspx

[Tools]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

I understand that he wishes to remain employed by the company and applaud him for that. However, if it did come to it that he wanted to claim for constructive dismissal (where he felt he had no option but to resign) even though he has only worked there for 4 months he would have a fair case to pursue it.

If it does come to that point I will explain the reasons in more detail but also have a read here > http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/employm...al/500240.html

[Shirley]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

Thank you very much for that :-)...I will get him to read this he he gets up....thanks again Tools ;-)

[bluebottle]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

After reading what I have on this thread, the OP needs to check their PAYE and Employee NI Contributions have been made to HMRC as a matter of urgency. The sort of shenanigans highlighted can often indicate an employer who is not playing things strictly by the rules.

[CleverClogs]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

After reading what I have on this thread, the OP needs to check their PAYE and Employee NI Contributions have been made to HMRC as a matter of urgency. The sort of shenanigans highlighted can often indicate an employer who is playing at Silly Buggers or trading when insolvent.

I've fixed your post for you. :grin:

[bluebottle]

Re: New and looking for employment advice please

I've fixed your post for you. :grin:

Although you may be playing the clown, Cloggy, I have a feeling there is more than a grain of truth in what you have said.