disciplinary procedure

[xbox]

Re: disciplinary procedure

Could the cabinets have been modified to fit the wrong sizes of glass doors?

no the cabinets could not be changed, wish they could have...

[xbox]

Re: disciplinary procedure

I have now drafted a second appeal letter which i think is better than the first, would anyone like to comment on this letter for me Please.

Thank you for providing me with the letter that i received on the 20th of december that confirms the details of the meeting and more that was held on the 11th of december with nnnnn , dddd and myself.

As confirmed by ACAS the whole situation is in breach of your own rules as laid out in the staff handbook and also breeches employment law.

Therefore i want to confirm that i wish I to appeal against the punishment imposed against me

i also want to confirm that i wish to lodge a grievance in respect to the way the meeting and punishment have been carried out.

please can you advise me on how you wish to progress in this matter

yours sincerely

[CleverClogs]

Re: disciplinary procedure

I know that you do consider your reversion to senior wood machinist as a demotion or even as a punishment, but I am not sure that your employers would agree.

Having read their letter, I'm not even sure that I'd agree.

I would certainly concur that your employers made a number of mistakes, the first being to change your position from a waged to a salaried post without ensuring that you fully understood what that new role would require and without making the change only temporary or provision for the first few months. They now seem intent on reversing what they did and - perhaps because they'd rather not lose your services completely - they've set about that wrongly, too!

[xbox]

Re: disciplinary procedure

Well I am beginning to feel a bit like a ping pong ball get getting smashed here and there with my employer.

When my boss decided I was going to be salaried, there was no information about it. He just said soon your going to be on your new rate. And then one week in the summer of 2012 July, bang now salary pay. But wasn't until April 2013 than nnnnn set out my new position with a roles and responsibilities sheet.

This only happened because in march I took 1/2 hours of at the end of the day for a dentist appointment which the following week I was deducted money from my pay. To say I was surprised was an under statement as that week I had completed about 6 hours overtime....

I thought as I was salary pay I was paid sick days this is because in February/march 2013 I had to take two separate days off work as I had a bug. I didn't think anything of it and I was paid as normal. Bearing in mind I still hadn't received my new contract to check against.

So now in November 2013 I think I have two days holiday to take but no they have been paid to me accidentally for sick days taken early that year.

the whole thing sounds a bit Mickey mouse

[CleverClogs]

Re: disciplinary procedure

the whole thing sounds a bit Mickey mouse

Rather than completely Donald Ducked?

[teaboy2]

Re: disciplinary procedure

Right i had a read through the thread yesterday but didn't post anything as at the time flicker, the site hosting the letters that are linked to in post 12 was down, so i wasn't able to read them till now.

From what i can see, you were not originally employed as a foreman, and where originally on hourly rate. When you asked for an increased the employer noted your experience and skill and agreed to make you a foreman and give you a salary on condition that you agreed to perform the additional duties that would be expected of you as a foreman.

These duties included opening up the shop on a morning, working additional hours as and when needed (which is what the extra £7K in your salary was to paid to you for, to cover such extra hours), and expected to hold morning meetings on a daily basis.

From reading the letters you linked to. You failed to carry out the duties you were required to perform, that is gross misconduct and a serious breach of contract. Luckily for you, your employer value your knowledge, experience and skill in your field of work, and merely kept to holding capability assessment, where you yourself admitted you only there for the money and don't want to work overtime as you felt you were not being paid for it, when in fact you were. As 11.50 at time and a halve is 17.25 per hour and that means only 7.8hrs (8hrs) overtime per week need be worked to regain that £7K in a year. 8 hours per week is nothing, and i doubt you would have been working more than that as a foreman either, at least not every single week.

So ineffect when you were paid salary you were being paid according to the duties that you were expected to perform, including working overtime when required. Yet you refused to perform your duties, as such your employer has simply switched you to a different role within the company that will come with its own duties, that you will be expected to perform, along with its pay rate.

As for what acas have stated, i see no evidence of the employer being in breach of contract or in breach of their own policies:

• punishment is severe - How is it, the 7K can be made up by 8 hours overtime per week which you would have been expected to do if and when needed by the company as a foreman. Yet refused as you felt your weren't being paid for it - Now you will be paid for it at time and a halve or more depending on what the company pays as overtime rate, and if it is more, then less than 8hrs overtime per week will be needed to make up the 7K. You refused to perform the duties associated with the foreman position, they have now transferred you to a role where you won't be expected to perform those duties.
• company not following there own rules for capability/ disciplinary procedure - From what i can see they have followed their own policies. They spoke to you informally and then formally as and decided to transfer you to a different role.
• not carried out capability/ disciplinary meeting under approved rule of practice - Again i see no evidence of this. Please provide details where you think they had failed to do this.
• not informed me of my statutory rights to have a companion present. They held a capability assessment, there is no statutory requirement to inform you of your right to be accompanied, that applies to disciplinary meetings only where it may result in you recieving a warning or dismissal. Off course you have the right to request that you be accompanied to a capability meeting and an employer should accept so long as there is no conflict of interest - End of the day you were not being disciplined on capability grounds but merely assessed and as a result it was decided to transfer you to a more suitable role.
• due to the difference in wages incurred this is a disciplinary meeting with rules. - No it was not, its a capability assessment where the outcome was that you were found unwilling to perform your expected duties so it was decided to transfer you to a role with lesser duties, which also has its own Pay Scale/ level or remuneration.
• job change pay rate is not a suitable change (£7000) per year difference - As stated, the 7K extra paid to you when on salary was to cover the overtime you were expected to work as and when the company required you too. You refused to do such overtime as you felt you were not being paid for it, which you admitted to the employer. Your now transferred to a role, where if you worked 8hrs overtime per week, you would make up that 7K
• breath of contract - Yes by you, due to failing to or refusing to perform the additional duties expected off you as a foreman. The employer has not breach the contract as any breach made by them would be as a result of your own breach of contract.
• changing my contract? - Variation of terms of contract are permitted in the employment sector and occur regularly, every time you get a pay rise, or pay reduction or when you role changes. They haven't changed your contract only the terms within.

The way i see it, you have been the victim of your own greed and arrogance - You wanted more money, and when given to you on the condition you performed the additional duties expected in exchange you refused to do those duties as you felt you were not being paid for them when in fact you were being paid. You now realised that you were being paid for them, and now your looking for a way to stop your employer from transferring you to the new role, which they are perfectly entitled to do as a result of your failing and reluctance to perform the duties expected as a foreman.

My advise would be to accept the change, because if you continue to push this, you could well end up out of a job, as they can still discipline you for your breaches of contract if you refuse the new role.

I know its not what you wanted to hear, but if you look at it from an employers point of view, which i have. You will see that your own actions brought all this on, if you had performed the duties expected of you, you wouldn't now be in this position, you forced the employer to act by giving them no choice but to, as they simply can not have you as a foreman and refusing to perform the duties assigned to you as that gives the wrong impression to the staff below you and also is not in the companies economic interest.

EDIT:

Just to be clear in regards to the right to be accompanied. The right to be accompanied is solely in regards to disciplinary and grievance procedures, this includes disciplinary on capability grounds, which is not what happened in this particular case as it was merely a capability assessment and it was also clear from the employer that they valued the OP as an employee, and as far as i can recall, they never mentioned that the meetings were disciplinary meetings at all. So there was no likelihood of any formal warning or dismissal occurring. As such it was not a disciplinary on capability but a mere capability assessment.

The law on where the right to be accompanied is found here under section 10 of the Employment Relations Act 1999, and nowhere does it state that you have a right to be accompanied during capability assessments which are not the same as disciplinary on capability grounds - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/26/section/10