Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

[teaboy2]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

I think now my biggest concern isn't getting my job back per se. I feel like the bridges have been burned and I just want to move onwards and upwards. All I want is for my manager to accept there is responsibility on his side with the investigating officer clearly highlighting flaws in regards to his & company procedures and not just pinning it on me 100% and hammering me for it on any future references. It's a dangerous game because I don't want to bring college into the equation too much and their clear admin faults as my tutor and the college/training provider manager both support me 100% to continue the course and I don't want to damage relations with them.

I emailed H.R regarding future references and the H.R rep states ''any information provided will be factual as employers will be liable for information provided'', which is fine legal talk and imo translates to me as ''we're gonna **** you over in any reference we give''. So how do I proceed from that? I've applied for every accounting post I can, queried with companies that aren't advertising and applied for any remedial jobs to just tie me over for now. I'm waiting on responses but when the dreaded question of ''why did you leave'' etc and references get sent out...then what?

We can always work for a compromise agreement, where the we can get them to include in the reference the reason for leaving as mutual termination.

[BZ14]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

We can always work for a compromise agreement, where the we can get them to include in the reference the reason for leaving as mutual termination.

What processes/avenues do I need to go down to make that a poissiblity?

[Inca]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

An eye opener you don't know what your missing.
If she reads this we are both DEAD

@@@@

[CleverClogs]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

Once upon a time I would have cheerfully joined in the banter wales....sadly,,those days have drifted away

That was why I didn't reply about how many clothes moths he'd seen. :rofl:

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

As advised by previous posts, I would contact ACAS asap.

Whilst I'm not an employment expert, I have been treated quite harshly by a couple of F places myself.

When your college told you that they were not able to provide you tuition for a full day did they put anything in writing? As your employer was paying for your course, the college should have notified them accordingly in writing. Was there going to be any delays of completing the course as a result or were you supposed to be studying remotely for rest of your college day? What you have said and what I've read here it sounds like your college might be in the wrong.

Even so, that is not going to help you. Does your contract of employment say anything about taking time off for studies etc? Are half days recognised in your firm i.e. can you take half a days holiday, for example? When taking time off for a course, client meeting, function etc outside the office has the practice always been claiming a full working day for the event, regardless of how long it actually took?

You should also read your employment handbook carefully, especially the firm's disciplinary
procedure. Normally an investigation meeting must be held, followed by a disciplinary hearing. You should have been told that you were allowed to be accompanied by a work colleague or a union representative (if you belong to one) in your disciplinary hearing. Some companies extend this right to include friends, solicitors etc but this is not mandatory.

Falsifying timesheets is usually treated as fraud, resulting in gross misconduct. In your case, I don't quite think that this is actually the situation. However, it could be argued that you should have been reasonably expected to notify your employer of any changes to your college schedule.

Unfortunately, the fact that you have not completed two years of employment with the firm makes your case tricky.

Finally, this is slightly off topic but the UK employment law sucks. It is there
to protect employers and those with vested interests, not employees. I am so sick of it that I have decided to move elsewhere, somewhere where the society is more equal and public services actually work. I for one am ready to show my middle finger to those UK F places!

[bluebottle]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

As advised by previous posts, I would contact ACAS asap.

Whilst I'm not an employment expert, I have been treated quite harshly by a couple of F places myself.

When your college told you that they were not able to provide you tuition for a full day did they put anything in writing? As your employer was paying for your course, the college should have notified them accordingly in writing. Was there going to be any delays of completing the course as a result or were you supposed to be studying remotely for rest of your college day? What you have said and what I've read here it sounds like your college might be in the wrong.

Even so, that is not going to help you. Does your contract of employment say anything about taking time off for studies etc? Are half days recognised in your firm i.e. can you take half a days holiday, for example? When taking time off for a course, client meeting, function etc outside the office has the practice always been claiming a full working day for the event, regardless of how long it actually took?

You should also read your employment handbook carefully, especially the firm's disciplinary
procedure. Normally an investigation meeting must be held, followed by a disciplinary hearing. You should have been told that you were allowed to be accompanied by a work colleague or a union representative (if you belong to one) in your disciplinary hearing. Some companies extend this right to include friends, solicitors etc but this is not mandatory.

Falsifying timesheets is usually treated as fraud, resulting in gross misconduct. In your case, I don't quite think that this is actually the situation. However, it could be argued that you should have been reasonably expected to notify your employer of any changes to your college schedule.

Unfortunately, the fact that you have not completed two years of employment with the firm makes your case tricky.

Finally, this is slightly off topic but the UK employment law sucks. It is there
to protect employers and those with vested interests, not employees. I am so sick of it that I have decided to move elsewhere, somewhere where the society is more equal and public services actually work. I for one am ready to show my middle finger to those UK F places!

Whilst some employers take this view, it is a misguided view that can get an employer into all sorts of bother they hadn't bargained on or want. Usually, it is the belief that "reasonable belief" is all they need. The reality is that with allegations of criminal dishonesty, an employer needs to be very sure of their evidence and have substantial evidence, that is, evidence that will stand up to challenge and substantiate the allegation(s) being made, before acting. Those who have not gone to the trouble of ensuring they have substantial evidence have found out just how costly their actions can be, not only in financial terms, but in loss of reputation as an employer as well as commercially.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct on Thursday. Few queries

Whilst some employers take this view, it is a misguided view that can get an employer into all sorts of bother they hadn't bargained on or want. Usually, it is the belief that "reasonable belief" is all they need. The reality is that with allegations of criminal dishonesty, an employer needs to be very sure of their evidence and have substantial evidence, that is, evidence that will stand up to challenge and substantiate the allegation(s) being made, before acting. Those who have not gone to the trouble of ensuring they have substantial evidence have found out just how costly their actions can be, not only in financial terms, but in loss of reputation as an employer as well as commercially.

I think this would be relevant only should the employer decide to report the matter to the police and / or other relevant authorities. I don't think that any employer would do it in this case as there is not enough evidence.

Being accused of gross misconduct is somewhat different. Many F places treat 'offences' such as 'failing to follow the companies rules and procedures' or 'bringing the company into disrepute' or even 'giving the company any reason to doubt employee's integrity' as gross misconduct.

The significant point here is that all those examples are very vague and can be used against anyone at anytime very easily.

Unfortunately, UK employees are among the least protected in the EU. This government has made the situation worse. I feel that I'm in a slightly better position in a sense that I am fluent in another European language and don't have to be stuck in this country where the systems is a laughing stock at best and pathetic in any case.