suspension from work, advice needed

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

I received an invite for disciplinary meeting next week after a long wait. It documented allegations after investigation could be considered acts of gross misconduct (neglect of company policy and breach of confidentiality obligation) and the potential outcome of the meeting may be dismissal. This came with the evidence of e-mails I sent and company policy.

I was told the decision will be made straight after the meeting. I will try to best present mitigating factors (files not shared to any 3rd party, use them as template for improve other stuff I'm handing over during notice period, rest for learning, I didn't want to stay too late in office to do this so thought sending them to personal inbox is easier to refer to over the weekend. The intension was not malicious but lack of thought about company policy.) hope they will consider and accept my resignation instead. How likely will they change the potential outcome from the invite letter if decision is made on the same day? My line manager has agreed to go as my representative. Can he help at all or more as an observer? I deeply regret what happened, hope the damage can be minimised to my future employment and agree a good reference.

Looks like I have no other options here, anything else I should say in the meeting to reach a better resolution? Any advice is appreciated.

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Did the 'invitation' advise you of your right to be accompanied by an appropriate person ?

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Also, in your opinion, would a dismissal have a serious impact on your ability to secure future employment in the financial arena?

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Yes, the invitation offered me to accompanied by a colleague or a trade union rep. My line manager has agreed to go. He's kept aware of the case so I thought he's the most appropriate person. Not sure if his role is more of an observer or anything he can do in the meeting at all.

In terms of reference, it is definitely required for all new employment in this industry. I don't know how much details they ask, some companies ask "reason for leaving", "if there has been any disciplinary proceeding" etc. I don't want this mistake to destroy my career in this industry. Everyone deserves a second chance.

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Yes, the invitation offered me to accompanied by a colleague or a trade union rep. My line manager has agreed to go. He's kept aware of the case so I thought he's the most appropriate person. Not sure if his role is more of an observer or anything he can do in the meeting at all.
The most important part is to take accurate notes on what is discussed, & get them agreed at the end of the meeting.

In terms of reference, it is definitely required for all new employment in this industry. I don't know how much details they ask, some companies ask "reason for leaving", "if there has been any disciplinary proceeding" etc. I don't want this mistake to destroy my career in this industry. Everyone deserves a second chance.
It may be possible to have legal representation at the meeting, especially as it might curtail your career prospects. It might be worth asking if it is possible - an refusal might come in handy later.

Also, find out the names and positions of all persons present - for instance, in one case I know of, the innocuous 'notetaker' brought in by the employer turned out to be the head of the firm's legal department, & was in fact the bod who was 'orchestrating' the entire procedure - hardly an impartial person!

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

There will be a separate note taker in the meeting and it says in the disciplinary policy that I will receive the meeting minutes after 2 days.

The only person allowed as representative are either company employee or union representative. I will check on legal representative but don't think they are allowed in the meeting.

I will check the positions of HR representative and note taker. Although it says in the policy that the disciplinary manager will decide the ultimate sanction but my feeling is that the HR representative plays a vital part.

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

There will be a separate note taker in the meeting and it says in the disciplinary policy that I will receive the meeting minutes after 2 days.

The only person allowed as representative are either company employee or union representative. I will check on legal representative but don't think they are allowed in the meeting.
The issue was brought before the Supreme Court in R (on the application of G) v Governors of X School & Y City Council [2011] UKSC30.
Although in that case the employee lost, it was because the subsequent decision-maker as to whether the employee would gain further employment in the particular field was an independent authority who could use their discretion in making that decision.
This ,in some quarters, has been seen as 'leaving the door open' to cases where there is a more direct knock-on effect, especially as the employee won at Court of Appeal. The SC decision was taken on a very narrow fact.
I will check the positions of HR representative and note taker. Although it says in the policy that the disciplinary manager will decide the ultimate sanction but my feeling is that the HR representative plays a vital part.
& who pays HR's wages?

See comments in red above

[Inca]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

As Nobby indicates ^^ up there,,,he who pays the piper calls the tune (Employer employs HR)

IMO..and it's ONLY my opinion.....the best outcome would be you get a decent reference...because you admit you did what you are accused of,albeit 'innocent' in your eyes.
Go in..answer questions honestly..state your case and that all you want from them is a reference that is truthful about the standard of your work,timekeeping blah blah and apologise for your 'mistake'.
I really wish you luck on this.....we've all done stuff that in hindsight was daft.

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Thanks Charitynjw and Inca for your kind advice. I have learnt a lesson and really hope I will get a good reference to move to my new employer successfully, so I can move on from this and get on with life.

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

The outcome from the disciplinary proceeding was dismissal with immediate effect. I would appreciate some urgent advice please!

I went to the hearing last Thursday and answered all the questions honestly which lasted for almost 3 hours with 2 adjournments. The diciplinary manager was unable to make the decision on the day, so I was invited back today for outcome and dismissed immediately.

I asked HR manager in the meeting today if they are able to reach a compromise agreement for a netrual reference. (i.e. I leave immediately rather than being dimissed) But was told this was the outcome of disciplinary proceeding so they were not able to change.

I was told that I have the right to appeal once I receive the outcome letter. But in the meanwhile if my future employer request reference, they will state the fact that I was dismissed due to gross misconduct. I have told them verbally that I intend to appeal as I don't have any other options to clear my name, as reference is very important in this industry. My line manager who went to the hearing as my representative was happy to support for the appeal, but he said it was not very likely to be overturned based on the fact that the decision was taken so long to be reached and the consideration involved.

I am just trying to put my mind together for the best action now. Below are just a few points of my thought and recommendation from the people I spoke to

1. Am I better off arranging a face to face meeting with my future line manager and let them know that I was dismissed after I resigned & I'm appealing before they find out from reference which is very likely? But I am running a big risk of my contact been terminated. What is the best way to do? Should I speak to the recruitment agent (I got this job through) who has a long term relationship with my future employer before doing this? Has anyone has this experience before and how likely they will consider my circumstances in financial service indurstry?

2. Should I write an e-mail to HR and request them to not provide any referene while my appeal is pending which will have a detrimental impact on my future employment if the outcome is overturnned after the appeal. But I guess this is something they can refuse.

I will have to wait for the decision letter through the post to put together the appeal. But I wanted to save my future employment in the meanwhile in case my current employer had the reference request pending and they provide it as soon as possible. Previsouly HR confirmed that they will not provide a reference before the investigation is completed so this is very likely to be the case.

The whole process seems to be reasonable according to ACAS guidance but I don't get why they have to be so harsh in the outcome given they understand the impact on my future career in this industry.

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

It would appear that the disciplinary process was conducted correctly, & I would hazard a guess that the outcome would lie within the 'range of reasonable response' test. (Only an Employment Tribunal could say for sure).

Along with the appeal, you could submit a formal grievance which would be considered by another manager. (It shouldn't be dealt with by anyone who has been involved with the disciplinary).

The ex-employer shouldn't really release any reference, particularly while the disciplinary/appeal is ongoing.

It would appear that they have taken the hard line, probably reading an adverse inference into the fact that you had accessed that information after having already given notice of leaving the job.

[Jess071113]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

Thanks Charitynjw!

I have honestly told my potential employer what happened and they seemed to be understanding. But they will need to check with HR and the policy to follow. I hope this is not the end of my career in this industry.

I totally understand my ex employer's decision was within the reasonable range of their right and they followed the procedure, but the fact they took the very hard line and did not want to negotiate a compromise agreement on reference left me with no other options but to appeal if I want to secure another employment.

I don't quite get your point of raising a grievance with the appeal?

[charitynjw]

Re: suspension from work, advice needed

You are quite within your rights to submit a grievance - it follows a broadly similar process to the disciplinary procedure, but should be conducted by others who are independent of the disciplinary procedure.

A long shot, but they might decide to be kinder, especially if you can demonstrate a previously good record/history with the company.

You can clarify that you are not seeking paid notice, & a neutral reference without the need for gross misconduct isn't much to ask.