Urgent advice needed

[accesspwd1]

I work for a large finance firm and have been there 6 years

I was called into a room today with a couple of manager and a fraud manager - They have been investigating me because I have my own company that I am a director off

I feel I am OK with everything on the company side because I have not made the 2 companies conflict

But, they have searched all my previous emails going back a few years and found things they are concerned with:

I gave a very good friend discount on a product we offer, this discount only applies to family not friends. This friend is so close to me we consider each other brothers, so I told my employer that he was my brother. Although we are not blood brothers I consider him that close

Secondly, a friend emailed me staying he was thinking of spending the money on his credit card and not paying them back, my reply in the email was 'YES, do it' this was not meant maliciously but meant more as banter between us. The company have said this is incriminating because I said 'yes' to it

I once used the company system to search the full make and model of my own vehicle, and they have said this is a 'no, no' to this also

If anything I feel I have abused the company email policy by email out of the company rather than act maliciously to the company, but I am no at fear of losing my job, the one that I love!

The big problem here is that my step dad works in law, and they have seen an email that looks like I was passing him cases in exchange for a referral fee. This certainly was no the case but merely me recommend, not refer, to my step dad for services he offers to a high standard

Any advice would be great

Thanks in advance

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Hi and welcome to LB!

You say you work for a 'large finance firm', presumably a financial institution of some sort?

Financial institutions can be very particular about what you are and are not allowed to do, even in your own time. I don't know what your contract says, but some don't allow you to be a company director or run a business of any sort, even if it doesn't conflict with the company you work for. A friend of mine who was working for a major investment bank was told he had to close down his company when he became a permanent employee (he was a temp for 6 months).

When you say you've been investigated, what was the outcome? Have they suspended you? Invited you to an investigation meeting? Scheduled a disciplinary? Issued you with a written warning? :noidea:

I had a similar experience, also with large financial institution, many years ago.

You really need to tell us a bit more... :director:

[accesspwd1]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you for the reply, and apologies I wasnt to clear

Its actually a motor insurer I work for... They have not said whats happening really, I feel left in the dark - I have given them my version and they said they will get back to me

When I was called into the room they did say that it was not a disciplinary but was a fact finding session, however I was in the room 2 hours and it felt more of an interrogation more than anything else

Im worried I have not lost my job, not because I own my own business because I feel they are satisfied that I am not maliciously taking data to pass on etc, but the other things they have brought up are now the concerns

Any advice is great

[charitynjw]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Hi accesspwd1,

'Factfinding' can often cross over the line into potential disciplinary territory.

If it were me, I would be very cautious of those present in any meetings, & if notes are taken, I would want a copy of them before I left the meeting, so that any inaccuracies can be rectified then & there.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you for the reply, and apologies I wasnt to clear

Its actually a motor insurer I work for... They have not said whats happening really, I feel left in the dark - I have given them my version and they said they will get back to me

Ah, that's different from a financial institution (bank). :thumb: Banks can be a lot worse!

When I was called into the room they did say that it was not a disciplinary but was a fact finding session, however I was in the room 2 hours and it felt more of an interrogation more than anything else

It could well have been just that, trying to find out what's going on. In my experience, if they were planning to dismiss you, they'd have done their homework before hand and, by the time they confronted you with the facts you mention above, they'd have made up their mind and scheduled a disciplinary.

You've been with the company 6 years, which means they would have to have solid arguments to be able to dismiss.

Im worried I have not lost my job, not because I own my own business because I feel they are satisfied that I am not maliciously taking data to pass on etc, but the other things they have brought up are now the concerns

If there's nothing on your contract about running a business, being a company director or having "outside interests", then this shouldn't be an issue. The reason I mention it is because it often IS written on employment contracts from financial institutions. :mad2: :mad2:

Hi accesspwd1,

'Factfinding' can often cross over the line into potential disciplinary territory.

If it were me, I would be very cautious of those present in any meetings, & if notes are taken, I would want a copy of them before I left the meeting, so that any inaccuracies can be rectified then & there.

Ideally, if you go to a meeting like that, you should record the meeting. Obviously you can't do that when they take you by surprise and pull you into a little room (they even took my mobile off me when they did that to me), but you can do that at any scheduled meeting, such as an investigation meeting, a disciplinary, etc. I took a small tape recorder with me on all those occasions, although I ran out of tape at the investigation meeting as it lasted over 3 hours. This was 10 years ago, nowadays most phones can be used to record.

[accesspwd1]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you all for the replies, all of which are noted

I wish I had asked for a copy of the notes in the meeting after seeing one reply. they surprised me so much I would never have thought of recording the discussions

There is something in the contract to make them aware if I have 'other interests' and I admit I didnt realise that which is why I didnt disclose it

What do you all think with the other things they have mentioned?

Thanks again

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you all for the replies, all of which are noted

I wish I had asked for a copy of the notes in the meeting after seeing one reply. they surprised me so much I would never have thought of recording the discussions

There is something in the contract to make them aware if I have 'other interests' and I admit I didnt realise that which is why I didnt disclose it

Sadly, ignorance is not likely to be an excuse. There was actually nothing in my contract saying I wasn't supposed to post examples of my design work online (my contract was from 97, when the internet was in its infancy, so no provision had been made for any of that), yet they argued "I should have known". :mad2:

What do you all think with the other things they have mentioned?

It can go either way. :decision: At the end of the day, it all depends on whether your employers consider your contribution to the business more important than any possible 'misdemeanors', or whether they've decided to get rid of you (for whatever reason), and are looking for arguments.

I feel I am OK with everything on the company side because I have not made the 2 companies conflict

No, but you say above your contract says you should make them 'aware' of any outside interests.

But, they have searched all my previous emails going back a few years and found things they are concerned with:

Have you any idea WHY they have, all of a sudden, decided to go through your emails? Was this the result of some routine investigation? A new company policy? A specific incident? :confused2:

I gave a very good friend discount on a product we offer, this discount only applies to family not friends. This friend is so close to me we consider each other brothers, so I told my employer that he was my brother. Although we are not blood brothers I consider him that close

If your employers find out he's not your brother, this could get you in serious trouble, because 1) you lied to them and 2) you breached company policy by offering a discount to someone who wasn't entitled to it. :sad:

Secondly, a friend emailed me staying he was thinking of spending the money on his credit card and not paying them back, my reply in the email was 'YES, do it' this was not meant maliciously but meant more as banter between us. The company have said this is incriminating because I said 'yes' to it

I fail to see how this has any significance, :noidea: as it doesn't relate to your employment in any way and could well be a joke.

I once used the company system to search the full make and model of my own vehicle, and they have said this is a 'no, no' to this also

I don't see anything wrong with this as such but if it's specifically stated somewhere that it's against company policy to do so, then you could be in trouble.

If anything I feel I have abused the company email policy by email out of the company rather than act maliciously to the company, but I am no at fear of losing my job, the one that I love!

The big problem here is that my step dad works in law, and they have seen an email that looks like I was passing him cases in exchange for a referral fee. This certainly was no the case but merely me recommend, not refer, to my step dad for services he offers to a high standard

Can I ask WHY you have been using the company email?

Please don't take this as criticism, I've been there, done that, :sad: only I did it over 10 years ago. Back then, webmail was still in its infancy, you couldn't send attachments, etc. There were no smartphones or tablets, in other words, it was the dark ages. Nowadays there are many alternatives to using the company email, starting with free, fully-featured webmail accounts, which would have been available as far back as 2002. :confused2:

[wales01man]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Have to ask is your own business insurance and have you ever used the company you work for to provide leads or any business to your own company,
As you have admitted passing on a discount to someone excluded by the company from receiving the discount that's not right is it is it not an abuse of your benefits gained by working for the company?

[accesspwd1]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you again for the reply

The reason for the investigation if because the company felt as I was also running another business that they search all my history in the company to make sure I was not stealing data - I haven't taken any data, and I feel they now believe that by looking over my past few years history.

But whilst going through all the emails they come up with this other stuff that they have concerns with - They did say in the meeting that they dont mind me having outside interests but should have let someone know

Such as me emailing external friends etc.. This is normal within the company, im confident that if they searched 99% of the rest of the staffs emails they will find the same, but that the only reason they have come across mine because they were prompted to do an initial investigation (someone out to get me?)

[accesspwd1]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Have to ask is your own business insurance and have you ever used the company you work for to provide leads or any business to your own company,
As you have admitted passing on a discount to someone excluded by the company from receiving the discount that's not right is it is it not an abuse of your benefits gained by working for the company?

Thanks for the message, the separate company has no link or anything to do with insurance, I simply have a website thats affiliated with payday companies - Ive never used the company I work for to generate leads, absolutely nothing at all

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thank you again for the reply

The reason for the investigation if because the company felt as I was also running another business that they search all my history in the company to make sure I was not stealing data - I haven't taken any data, and I feel they now believe that by looking over my past few years history.

How did they find out about your other business in the first place? :confused2:

But whilst going through all the emails they come up with this other stuff that they have concerns with - They did say in the meeting that they dont mind me having outside interests but should have let someone know

Such as me emailing external friends etc.. This is normal within the company, im confident that if they searched 99% of the rest of the staffs emails they will find the same, but that the only reason they have come across mine because they were prompted to do an initial investigation (someone out to get me?)

Someone out to get you is always the reason why employers start reading your emails!

I would say, in this day and age, you should really avoid using the company email for any personal purposes, some employers may even regard that as computer misuse which, depending on company policy, and the terms of your employment, can even be a sackable offence.

In any case, you know your employers are reading your emails, do you really want them to read your personal or outside business communications? I certainly wouldn't!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Thanks for the message, the separate company has no link or anything to do with insurance, I simply have a website thats affiliated with payday companies - Ive never used the company I work for to generate leads, absolutely nothing at all

Do you mean payday lenders? :scared: :scared: :scared:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Urgent advice needed

In any case, you know your employers are reading your emails, do you really want them to read your personal or outside business communications? I certainly wouldn't!

At least the OP has not (yet) been accused of smoking dope on the company's time...

[accesspwd1]

Re: Urgent advice needed

I have an update and any help would be appreciated

I was dismissed from the company as expected

They asked if I wanted to take anyone to the disciplinary hearing, I requested to take my manager with me, originally they said 'yes' she could attend, and later that day they said she would no longer be allowed to attend - I asked why and was told it was because she was part of the investigation. As a result I attended the hearing alone

In the hearing they went over all the 'evidence', but it turns our they dismissed me for, a large rang of things:

-Abuse of email systems
-Breach of DPA
-Potential to bring the company name into disrepute
-Work Avoidance
-Perception of fraudulent activity

I completely disagree with some of these, work avoidance has never in my 5 year history with the company has never been mentioned to me, until I was in the hearing. Can they not mention it before the hearing, then add it to my dismissal letter?

Perception of fraudulent activity, if they had just spoken to the people the emails were to they would confirm there was no malicious activities taking place, and they could explain what the emails were about

Breach of DPA, I done a search on my own vehicle, not someone else so I cant see how this was a breach on DPA

I now also have it in writing from my manager (the person who I wanted to take to the hearing) and she confirmed that she had no part, and did not know the investigation had taken pace until the very moment they told me, myself

I feel strongly they have broken the ACAS code of practise for not allowing me to take the companion I requested, they appear to have made an excuse to stop her going

At the dismissal they said I had 7 days if I wanted to appeal the decision, during that time I indeed put an appeal together and during this interim the company has 'forfeit' all the shares I had with the company. How can they literally remove all my shares before my appeal hearing? If I win my appeal, how can they give al my shares back at the same price I got them for - Its like the appeal decision has already been made

I have also been told by a higher manager, that our people services department had said not to dismiss me, but the department manager had said to do it... Does this having any standing anywhere?

Any advice would be great. My share holding in the company is what I would consider substantial

[charitynjw]

Re: Urgent advice needed

Hi accesspwd1,

Sorry to hear the bad news.

However, on the subject of the employer's refusal to allow your chosen companion to attend, Toal & Anor v GB Oils Ltd should be of interest to you.

The Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled that, as long as the chosen companion is from a category of permissible persons (a co-worker being one such class of persons), the employer has no right to refuse that choice.