Contracted hours rolled over.

[archie Dude]

Hi,hope some beagle out there can help me,I am contracted to work 45 hrs per week, In the past whether hours were up or down montly pay was 4x45,employer now says if 180 hrs are not worked in month, any excess or shortage of hours will be rolled over from week to week,month to month,most months due to fluctuating nature of the job hours worked are under 180. if 60 hrs worked week 1 no overtime has ever been paid.If work available on week 2 is only 20hrs over 4 days ,usually sent home when work is finished. no problems,Now employer is saying shortages will be rolled over and may eventually be clawed back in money,or be required to work the hours at some later date.No overtime will ever be paid,excess hours will be rolled over to cover shortages in future months.Have never complained about lack of overtime payments,because I appreciate there are the quite weeks,Position has always been described as job and finish in the past,Any advice please.

[teaboy2]

Re: Contracted hours rolled over.

So what your saying is that if you only worked say 30 hours in week 1 you would be expected to work 15 hours extra in week 2 - Yet if you only worked 50 hours in week 2 you would have to work 55 hours in week 3 just so the 15 hours lost in week one are clawed back from you over the 2nd and 3rd week.

Have you opt-out of the working time directives? |If not then he would be in breach of working time regulations if your made to work more than 48 hour weeks, he also can not force you to sign an opt-out form, nor can he sack you for it unless he wants to end up in facing an employment tribunal.

Are you also saying your employer has threatened to not deducted wages for hours you have worked for hours you were short of the 180 hrs. i.e if you were 5 hours short of the 180 hours he will deduct 5 hours from your wages? atleast thats how i interprate what you meant when he said "rolled over and may eventually be clawed back in money,or be required to work the hours at some later date".

As for excesses hours work he has to pay you for them on your pay date for the week or month they were work. He can lawfully withhold those wages to cover for the shortage of hours in the following month.

I think what you employer is proposing would be a massive accounting headache when trying to keep track of who is owed what in wages, holiday pay etc.

Simplest thing he should do is to simply pay you for the hours work in total each month. Also any overtime rate is optional and their is no legal requirement for him to pay more than your standard hourly rate.

On a side note if your place of work stops work because of the whether you are by law entitled to be paid yur full days wages as though you had worked the full day - just like it is when work places closed due to the bad snow!

[archie Dude]

Re: Contracted hours rolled over.

Thanks for replying to this post,
1. As a group we have opted out of wtd.
2. Your 2nd paragraph is correct.
3. Your understanding in 3rd paragraph is right.
4. In reply to your 4th paragraph do you mean employer cant lawfully withhold wages,and also can he legally roll over from month to month shortages of hours,if I am available for work on every day I am rosterd in.
5. Just to reiterate,I have a contract that states. "your normal hours of duty are 45 hrs per week,or such extra hrs as needed to complete work,your remuneration is xxx per hour." I am paid monthly and I think employer is trying to interpret the contract as your hrs of duty are 180 per month.
6. Also there is another group of workers who are on 40 hr contracts and they have been told they can earn overtime and their hours will be zeroed at the end of each month. The inference being they will be able to earn more than me and maybe I should go on a 40 hr contract.I personally don't care how much someone else earns as long as my contract is honoured.
7. Lastly, is there somewhere I can find the legal definition of contracted hrs. Thanks again.

[charitynjw]

Re: Contracted hours rolled over.

There is some info re Working Time Regs/Flexible working here http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

[jon1965]

Re: Contracted hours rolled over.

Teaboy unless it has changed the working time directive does not cover individual weeks just averages over a 17 week period. I know my exemployer used annualised hours and that worked.

[teaboy2]

Re: Contracted hours rolled over.

Teaboy unless it has changed the working time directive does not cover individual weeks just averages over a 17 week period. I know my exemployer used annualised hours and that worked.

Yes i know, but the issue here is that there is a real risk that if the employer rolls the hours over, then its likely that on weeks where they have to work more hours to make up for the lost hours the previous week(s) the employees may not get the statutory 11 hours rest per shift.

Thanks for replying to this post,
1. As a group we have opted out of wtd. - You opted out of working a maximum of 48 hours per week, not out of the Working Time Regulations entirely.
2. Your 2nd paragraph is correct.
3. Your understanding in 3rd paragraph is right.
4. In reply to your 4th paragraph do you mean employer cant lawfully withhold wages,and also can he legally roll over from month to month shortages of hours,if I am available for work on every day I am rosterd in. - Thats correct, its a breach of section 13 of the employment rights act if an employer with holds wages for hours worked, though in your case it would be calculated per month not per week.
5. Just to reiterate,I have a contract that states. "your normal hours of duty are 45 hrs per week,or such extra hrs as needed to complete work,your remuneration is xxx per hour." I am paid monthly and I think employer is trying to interpret the contract as your hrs of duty are 180 per month. - Yes that is what hes doing, though he would still have to pay you on your pay date for the hours you worked, even if you were short on hours, end of the day it is for the employer to ensure you have enough work so that you can fulfill your contracted hours.
6. Also there is another group of workers who are on 40 hr contracts and they have been told they can earn overtime and their hours will be zeroed at the end of each month. The inference being they will be able to earn more than me and maybe I should go on a 40 hr contract.I personally don't care how much someone else earns as long as my contract is honoured. - If this other group of workers are in the same or similar role as you then your contract should be the same.
7. Lastly, is there somewhere I can find the legal definition of contracted hrs. Thanks again. - Yes your contracted hours, they are legally binding.

Take a look at section 28 employment rights act 1996 Basically, your employer most give you remuneration for any workless days or hours where work is not available, if you have turned up for work. As stated above the employer must ensure that their is enough work for you to meet your contracted hours, if there is not enough work, then as your contracted to 45 hours, then they most compensate you for the loss in wages. Failure to do so would amount to a breach of contract.

Your employer seems to be doing that be rolling your lost hours over to the next week. Although nothing is wrong with doing so, they must still make sure you get your full monthly contracted hours and are paid for those hours, whilst also making sure you get your statutory 11 hours rest period between shifts under the working Time Regulations. Basically when your employer sends you home early because their is not enough work, he has effectively put you on short time working or you have been laid off, in both cases you are entitled under section 28 to be paid, though the amount you are paid may not be your full hourly rate, this is called a guarantee payment. - You can find more info here - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nirela...ts_at_work.htm