Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

[tomsmith]

Hi,

I have been working in a large company for almost a year and a half and suddenly my manager told me in a conversation that they are not willing to pay my salary and that I was not needed in the team. The chronological elements go as follows:

1-I was hired for a specific function as a permanent employee and passed my probation period successfully, but 2 months after my arrival the company decided to cancel the project I was in. As a result, I have been performing other tasks and always complying with what the manager asked for.

2-The company had a general restructuring and consultation period for 3 months prior to Christmas, but no one ever asked me to join it or did any pressure in that direction whatsoever.

3-Two months ago I had an odd informal evaluation (I didn't sign any paper nor did he), where the manager insisted I had a higher job category than the one I have on my contract, claiming that my job title is the one on the contract, but the pay I get corresponds to a higher position and he evaluated poorly my potential based on the higher position.

4-Now, my manager has hired a junior person and held an informal meeting saying that I don't have certain skills (which I never claimed for and were not required to my hiring) and saying that now there is no place for me in the team anymore. He told me to start looking for a new job internally and externally, but tried to make it as if it was my own problem and he didn't offer to help me internally. I have a notice period of 3 months in my contract.

My questions are:

Can a person in the UK be fired just like this? My desire is to ideally stay at the company probably at another position, but I suppose the manager has to help me in finding another position internally, right?
If a company wants to fire a permanent employee who has never had any problems and has complied with every request, can they do it just for one person and not under a restructuring program? If they want to fire me, shouldn't they give me formal notice? Or do they need to do a disciplinary process or prove that I didn't adapt to a job first and offer me another opportunity internally?

All help would be appreciated and links to the general law that rules dismissals.

Many thanks.

Regards,

Tom

What is the best option to proceed legally?

[charitynjw]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

Hi Tom,

Unfortunately, to claim for unfair dismissal , which would be via an Employment Tribunal, you would need to be with your employer for at least 2 years. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...article/3/made

(unless you were dismissed because of a protected characteristic - http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/a...s-definitions/ )

[davec1960]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

Hi Tom,

Unfortunately, to claim for unfair dismissal , which would be via an Employment Tribunal, you would need to be with your employer for at least 2 years. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...article/3/made

The two year period is for people joining after 6th April 2012. OP will be able to claim if they joined before then.

[charitynjw]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

The two year period is for people joining after 6th April 2012. OP will be able to claim if they joined before then.

My bad, & apologies to OP

Thanks for that, davec1960, I should have gone to specsavers.

As you rightly point out, if the employment began before 6th April 2012, the qualifying period is one year.

[charitynjw]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

Regarding the link re dismissals, see http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1797

There is a comprehensive guide there which you can download.

[charitynjw]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

The 5 potentially fair reasons for dismissal, as per the Employment Rights Act, are

Incapability
Misconduct
Redundancy
Contravening a duty of restriction (ie someone, employed as a driver, receives a lengthy ban, & can't be redeployed)
Some other substantial reason (SOSR)

The employer has to give their reason for dismissal; the Employment Tribunal's job is to test that reason (or find the real reason), & examine the reason for fairness (ie whether it would be reasonable for a reasonable employer)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/98

F3(4)

[F4In any other case where]F4 the employer has fulfilled the requirements of subsection (1), the determination of the question whether the dismissal is fair or unfair (having regard to the reason shown by the employer)—

(a)

depends on whether in the circumstances (including the size and administrative resources of the employer’s undertaking) the employer acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating it as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee, and

(b)

shall be determined in accordance with equity and the substantial merits of the case.

[Eloise01]

Re: Suddenly becoming "redundant" because too expensive

It is correct that if your employment started before 6th April 2011, you already have the qualifying period for unfair dismissal claims. However, that does not mean the same thing as having a case. And the first issue that you face here is that the employer has not (yet) done anything, and so they haven't done anything unlawful either.

Hi,

I have been working in a large company for almost a year and a half and suddenly my manager told me in a conversation that they are not willing to pay my salary and that I was not needed in the team. At this stage that is nothing but an opinion - it has no meaning until the employer attempts to remove you from the team in some way.

The chronological elements go as follows:

1-I was hired for a specific function as a permanent employee and passed my probation period successfully, but 2 months after my arrival the company decided to cancel the project I was in. As a result, I have been performing other tasks and always complying with what the manager asked for. Unfortunately, this is irrelevant. If the post that you hold is redundant, then it is redundant. At this stage nobody has actually formally said so, so the only thing that you can do is continue to work as directed.

2-The company had a general restructuring and consultation period for 3 months prior to Christmas, but no one ever asked me to join it or did any pressure in that direction whatsoever. Again, unfortunately, the is irrelevant. That was then and this is now - so things may have changed which necessitate further change. The employer is permistted to look at what they need now, regardless of what may or may not have happened in the past.

3-Two months ago I had an odd informal evaluation (I didn't sign any paper nor did he), where the manager insisted I had a higher job category than the one I have on my contract, claiming that my job title is the one on the contract, but the pay I get corresponds to a higher position and he evaluated poorly my potential based on the higher position. And again I am afraid that this is meaningless. It's an opinion and nothing more.

4-Now, my manager has hired a junior person and held an informal meeting saying that I don't have certain skills (which I never claimed for and were not required to my hiring) and saying that now there is no place for me in the team anymore. He told me to start looking for a new job internally and externally, but tried to make it as if it was my own problem and he didn't offer to help me internally. I have a notice period of 3 months in my contract. Your position currently is that you have a job. You do not have to do anything at all. Informal meetings have no relevance. You are either put at risk because your job is redundant, or not. As things stand, you are not. It may be convenient for the manager if you resolve his problem by getting another position - but equally it may be just as convenient for you, since you have no redundancy pay due and you have fair warning that your position may not be secure.

My questions are:

Can a person in the UK be fired just like this? They haven't fired you. You haven't done anything except have a conversation with you. It isn't unlawful to have a conversation with someone.

My desire is to ideally stay at the company probably at another position, but I suppose the manager has to help me in finding another position internally, right? Not right. Until such time as you are formally put at risk the employer doesn't have to do anything for you, because you are not at risk of redundancy. If they put you at risk they must look to see if there is a suitable alternative position available for you. If there isn't, you will be made redundant.

If a company wants to fire a permanent employee who has never had any problems and has complied with every request, can they do it just for one person and not under a restructuring program? Yes.

If they want to fire me, shouldn't they give me formal notice? Assuming this is a redundancy, then they must first put you at risk and then issue formal notice in accordance with the relevant law.

Or do they need to do a disciplinary process or prove that I didn't adapt to a job first and offer me another opportunity internally? There is no indication that any disciplinary process is being considered. But no, if your are at risk of redundancy they must first see whether a suitable alternative exists - they do not have to simply offer you another job unless it is a suitable alternative.

All help would be appreciated and links to the general law that rules dismissals.

Many thanks.

Regards,

Tom

What is the best option to proceed legally?

There are currently no legal options - nothing has happened. Until it does, there is nothing that you can do - and there may not be anything you can do even when it does. This is a case of the writing being on the wall, but the wall is currently not written on. Given your position you would be foolish to ignore the fact that you have had fair warning - if you can get another job then you should do so.