Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

[mazzerooni]

I POSTED LOOKING FOR ADVICE, But when I didn't like the answers I received, I deleted all my posts because I'm an arrogant tit.

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Sorry but no, I don't think there is based on what you have said here. Your description of how this has been handled to date indicates that the employer has acted well within the law. And failure to observe a fundamental health and safety instruction whatever the reason is both putting the employer at risk and a breach of the law on the part of the employee. It is certainly within the scope of what could be considered gross misconduct by an employer. And having no previous disciplinary record (there is always a first time - and in this case the first time is a serious matter) or having been a model employee is a mitigation - not an explanation. In law the employer must permit a mitigation to be put and must listen to it - but they do not have to accept it. Probably not what you (or she) wants to hear. The employer may, on reflection and in light of her mitigation, be lenient, but I think it very unlikely that this will not proceed beyond an invetsigation to a disciplinary hearing, and her best outcome would be a warning and quite probably a final warning.

I appreciate that there was "no harm done" - that isn't the point. Health and safety regulations are there to ensure no harm is done through negligence or deliberate ommission. If she had been run over by a reversing delivery truck who did not see her because she wasn't wearing her hi-viz jacket, it is fairly certain that you would have taken a different view of "no harm done". It isn't about what happened, but what might have happened. And honestly, I don't think she is right in feeling let down - I think the employer is acting responsibly and properly in relation to the safety of ALL their employees.

[mazzerooni]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

And the Legal Beagles forum is SOOO sad to see me go...... cos we do like an arrogant tit to play with on a dull day.....

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

The employer has acted quite legally, as I said. So no, there is no requirement to have given warning of an investigation meeting. Nor would it be common to do so - warning also gives someone an opportunity to think up excuses. And I am sorry but I entirely disagree with your comments - you may think the manager "spineless" - in my view, and the view of the law, the manager and the employer have acted appropriately and in a manner that I wish more employers would. Taking the health and safety of employees seriously is something to be commended, and this employer clearly has rigorous processes in place to ensure that they comply with their legal and moral obligations to employees. Being popular, or having two other job offers already, does not undermine the seriousness of what she has done, but it does indicate that she or you do not really think it that serious because you consider her popularity and/or personality more important than the fact that she could have been putting her own life, or the life of others, at risk because it may have been raining and she didn't follow a rule that she absolutely knew about.

[wales01man]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Once again Eloise your giving excellent advice and the op seems to argue ,if the wife is so good to have 2 job offers why did she ignore safety rules? we all think we are perfect and should be treated as such.Keep giving the advice its informative and interesting to me maybe not the answer wanted by others

[des8]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

As I said in another post, you only have to work in the accident claims or liability side of a large insurance outfit to realize why H&S is so important.
See the outcome of not following safety rules and you would never argue about them again.
Eloise, you're spot on.

[mazzerooni]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Gone and forgotten....

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Clearly, as a retired H&S adviisor for a provate company, since you do not understand the issue or the importance of it, you must have worked for one of those companies who don't value H&S as highly as your wifes employer.

You wife was treated as a person - she was treated as a person who allegedly broke the law and company policy.

You got the answer you asked for twice - yes it was correct. What you meant is that you wanted a different answer. It is helpful, when posters know what answer they want, if they tell us what the answer they want is - then we don't waste time telling them the correct answer.

[Sapphire]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Mazzerooni, how very ungrateful can you be, you come on here, ask your question and get an honest, truthful answer, it might not be the one you want but it is honest and truthful.
Eloise is a well respected professional in her field, yet you have chosen to poo poo her advice, if you had gone to an employment barrister you would have been charged at least a couple of hundred pounds per hour, yet you came on here and got the very same advice for free. Granted Eloise is not known for 'dressing up' her advice and tells you how it is, rather than what you want to hear, but would you want to have it any other way, I think not.
Instead of being ungrateful, I think you should give a heartfelt thank you and then decide if you want to take the advice or carry on.
For the record this forum is not full of 'suck asses', what it is full of is genuine people who are here to help others, people who care and people who need help.

Oh and if you are as you say a 'retired' H & S Advisor then you should know the importance of safety and should have been able to advise your wife on the importance of sticking to the rules, no matter what happens.

[mazzerooni]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

gone

[leclerc]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Juess, this is a forum of suck asses, congrats walesman and Des, but try thinking for your selves next time.

Elouise, a simple yes or no to the actual title of my post would have been sufficient. As a retired H&S advisor for a private company I fully understand the issue, no need for lectures from any of you.

1st time poster that won't be back,

The other thing this post was about was being treated as a person, rather than a number, over and out.

Mazzeroni, you were told YES and followed up with the comment about proportionality which appeared to suggest that you disagreed with the advice. The others that have posted are merely stated the obvious. The advice was given.

In terms of your last comment, well yes, you are simply a number(payroll) and under the law every person must be treated equally which your OH has been. If she has offers of other jobs, will her dismissal have any affect on that? Is she suspended or has she been sacked?
Remember the employer can tell the new employer that she left whilst under disciplinary. Factual information only.

[leclerc]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Then next time spare yourself the time and answer the question rather than print a chapter of H&S law,

to quote from my post;

She doesn't deny a thing, she can't even remember doing it, it's just the fact that she has been treated this way and it looks as though she will be made an example of to satisfy the auditors.

and again;


So, she has committed an offence that she openly admits too, but is seriously aggrieved by being faced with this without any preparation time.


Thank you for your endeavours, but I don't understand what part of my 1st post you don't understand.

I appreciate your answer, the hanger ons I don't.

Is this merely the investigation stage? Remember that if it is taken further then she will have the time to give her side of the argument with an employee representative present. It should be in her contract about disciplinary procedures.

To qualify this: I have been in a situation where I was called to an investigation meeting with NO prior warning. I was then suspended and then was provided with all the evidence that they were using in a formal disciplinary meeting in which sacking was possible(this was for GM). At the disciplinary meeting I was able to give my side of the story and then a decision was made. If no decision has been made then has she got a union rep?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Is this merely the investigation stage? Remember that if it is taken further then she will have the time to give her side of the argument with an employee representative present. It should be in her contract about disciplinary procedures.

To qualify this: I have been in a situation where I was called to an investigation meeting with NO prior warning. I was then suspended and then was provided with all the evidence that they were using in a formal disciplinary meeting in which sacking was possible(this was for GM). At the disciplinary meeting I was able to give my side of the story and then a decision was made. If no decision has been made then has she got a union rep?

I had the exact same experience, only many years earlier than you (from what I've gathered). I was called to a meeting room, questioned and handed a suspension letter, telling me as I was suspended on full pay, I should be available during the hours I would normally be at work. The following week I got a phone call asking me to attend an investigation meeting on the same day, where I was confronted by a stash of so-called 'evidence' (printouts). The meeting lasted over three hours, and that only because I ended up walking out when a third party who worked for a different company, was brought into the discussion. I said I couldn't really discuss that side of things without advice, got up and left. :bolt:

The day after I got a phone call saying they would send a taxi to pick me up and take me with my home computer and laptop to the office to have my (own) computers checked for any information belonging to the company! :scared: :scared: :scared: Only a couple of hours 'warning' (the time it took for the taxi to arrive) but enough to save all my personal files to the 2nd HD, get the screwdriver out, open the PC and remove that HD, leaving only the boot C: drive, I then launched 'FORMAT' and hit ENTER! :nerd: :nerd: :nerd: When I arrived there, they were shocked to find a freshly formatted drive but the night before, at the investigation meeting, I'd been told I had to "sanitize my computer" so I did... :thumb:

It was a financial institution, other companies probably wouldn't go as far as this.

[wales01man]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

Oh dear he dont like me?

[mazzerooni]

Re: Disciplinary procedure, is it correct?

gone