Office Dress Code Question

[Secretary78]

If a company has a dress code which bans wearing jeans into the office (but where customer contact is minimal), is it always be unlawful for the company to use the ‘gross misconduct’ card if anyone wore them. Is it always a minor disciplinary matter?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

I'm sorry but I just have to ask: is it so important for someone to wear jeans that they would risk a disciplinary just for the sake of wearing them to the office? :noidea: :confused2:

[Secretary78]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

No, it is not that. It is purely a friendly argument I am having with one of the other secretaries at work and I wondered whether anyone on here could easily settle the matter (chapter and verse would be appreciated). Thanks

[labman]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

We have someone who can answer the question who I'm sure will tomorrow if she's around. Meanwhile, I'll stick my neck out and have a best guess.

Any company is entitled to have a dress code - Tesco, Asda, TNT, Halfords, McDonalds - you name it, they have a dress code. If the dress code is broken I imagine it is something you would be picked up on, and depending on the size of the breach could be gross misconduct (say wearing an Asda uniform to work at Tesco). I think a smaller breach would be picked up on in a less severe way.

Wearing jeans - as FP says - why would you if you know it's against the dress code? It would be being deliberately provocative and unprofessional so could well merit a substantial disciplinary.

I stand to be shot down in flames!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

Wearing jeans - as FP says - why would you if you know it's against the dress code? It would be being deliberately provocative and unprofessional so could well merit a substantial disciplinary.

Would you want to work for a company that insisted you wear a dress?

I wouldn't. :grin:

[Eloise01]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

"Refusing to follow a reasonable and lawful instruction of the employer" = gross misconduct (if the employer chooses to treat it as such).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

Would you want to work for a company that insisted you wear a dress?

I wouldn't. :grin:

I certainly would!

Any company is entitled to have a dress code - Tesco, Asda, TNT, Halfords, McDonalds - you name it, they have a dress code. If the dress code is broken I imagine it is something you would be picked up on, and depending on the size of the breach could be gross misconduct (say wearing an Asda uniform to work at Tesco). I think a smaller breach would be picked up on in a less severe way.

Wearing jeans - as FP says - why would you if you know it's against the dress code? It would be being deliberately provocative and unprofessional so could well merit a substantial disciplinary.
I stand to be shot down in flames!

You would be shot down in flames if you turned up for work at Tesco in your Asda uniform!

[Secretary78]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

"Refusing to follow a reasonable and lawful instruction of the employer" = gross misconduct (if the employer chooses to treat it as such).

OK but "gross misconduct - if the employer chooses to treat it as such". My point is that even if an employer considered it gross misconduct, a Tribunal would decide differently, i.e. it was just a minor violation and not gross misconduct. Am I right?

[Secretary78]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

"Refusing to follow a reasonable and lawful instruction of the employer" = gross misconduct (if the employer chooses to treat it as such).

Also, it is ‘reasonable’? For example, if an employer demanded every employee spent 15 mins each day standing in main reception with a packet of crisps balancing on their head and this task had no benefit or explanation to the working of the company then it could be deemed unreasonable. Likewise, if you are asked to dress in a particular way (or forbidden wearing normal clothes) when as a secretary you have no customer contact surely that is equally unreasonable?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

Also, it is ‘reasonable’? For example, if an employer demanded every employee spent 15 mins each day standing in main reception with a packet of crisps balancing on their head and this task had no benefit or explanation to the working of the company then it could be deemed unreasonable. Likewise, if you are asked to dress in a particular way (or forbidden wearing normal clothes) when as a secretary you have no customer contact surely that is equally unreasonable?

What do you mean by 'normal clothes'? :confused2:
As noted above, an employer can make you wear a uniform, or something specific without being exactly a uniform, such as 'a blue suit with a white or cream shirt or blouse', or something less specific but within certain guidelines.

[leclerc]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

"Refusing to follow a reasonable and lawful instruction of the employer" = gross misconduct (if the employer chooses to treat it as such).

OK but "gross misconduct - if the employer chooses to treat it as such". My point is that even if an employer considered it gross misconduct, a Tribunal would decide differently, i.e. it was just a minor violation and not gross misconduct. Am I right?

That sounds like a factual statement to make and one that you need to back up with some case law or a clear case where this has happened. The act of not following a reasonable instruction is gross misconduct and is the same as telling the employer that you will not abide by their rules.

You have asked the question and Eloise has answered it. The Tribunal would not give one jot what the instruction was unless it was unreasonable so please inform us why it is unreasonable for the employer to expect their staff to come into work in trousers not jeans? Their instructions are clear, if you do not like that instruction then find some other employ elsewhere who abides by your strict dress code.

I assume you are not winning the debate amongst the secretaries and that your viewpoint is that it is not Gross Misconduct. I am afraid it looks like you are buying the cakes for the office next week

[CleverClogs]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

What do you mean by 'normal clothes'? :confused2:
As noted above, an employer can make you wear a uniform, or something specific without being exactly a uniform, such as 'a blue suit with a white or cream shirt or blouse', or something less specific but within certain guidelines.

How about an employer insisting that his secretary wore no clothes at all?

[Eloise01]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

I do not have the time to engage in esoteric debates with secretaries who have nothing better to do in work than gossip about whether wearing jeans ought to be gross misconduct. If you wish to find out what a tribunal thinks on the matter, and you have such a dress code, I suggest that you wear jeans to work and find out. Mind you, I wouldn't strongly recommend it - you have been told not to wear jeans to work, and you will find that a tribunal has little tolerance for people who are being silly and willing to throw away their employment over a pair of jeans. But if you are bored at work, perhaps you could try balancing a packet of crisps on your head - it is fairly certain the employer doesn't (yet) have a policy forbidding it.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

I do not have the time to engage in esoteric debates with secretaries who have nothing better to do in work than gossip about whether wearing jeans ought to be gross misconduct.

Then why did you respond at all?

[scoobydoo]

Re: Office Dress Code Question

Can I just say from an employers point of view( no legal advice here) that dress code can be a nightmare. I have one member of staff who is in a workshop who insists on wearing what I consider to be unsuitable attire ( her daughters say she dresses a bit like a tart to put it politely) When I took her in to mention it she basically asked me whether she should have a ruler line to show how short her skirts or shorts should be. I calmly replied that she was 50 years old and she should have the common sense to know what is appropriate and what is not . We have also had problems with staff having tatoos that are clearly visible. We have regular important business customers to the premises ( unannounced) and as Directors we feel that we have the right to ask our employees to present themselves in a professional way at all times . You have to remember that if you let your standards slip other members of staff will follow and that is where what you may feel is nit picking becomes a matter of discipline. So perhaps you can you start to look at this matter from your employers point of view for a change.Company owners have enough red tape to deal with as it is.