Tupe stress

[stiffed]

Hi all i am Stiffed

Let us begin

Last November the company i work for who we shall call S3 transferred all of its hourly paid employees via T.U.P.E to a so called payroll company who we will call PSL no Salaried employees were affected by this move and their contracts have remained the same.

The transfer took place on November the 1st 2012 with no actual consultation and no one from PSL spoke to us till after the transfer was completed. There was no choice sign over or leave.

All was going well until 18-5-2013 when all the transferred employees received contract termination letters and S3 said they would re employ all the staff on their old contracts with one omission our contract start date would be 18-3-2013 as they said it would be illegal to go back to our old contract start dates. They would however honor our contract start dates verbally.

Now no one bar me has had any contact with PSL for 5 weeks after several emails i received a reply stating that we had in effect been made redundant for financial reasons and that all employees would receive a letter shortly. This was on the 24-4-2013 and since then no one including myself has had any contact with PSL and believe me we have been trying. Now we have spoken to ACAS and they told us that as PSL was only a payroll company there was never any need to transfer by T.U.P.E ...... This sounds like a scam to get out of contractual obligations to the hourly paid. Some employees have over 26 years service and now only the word of a decidedly dodgy employer to fall back on.

Now as a group we are contacting legal help. My question is has anyone heard of this type of scam before

Cheers Stiffed

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Tupe stress

It matters not a jot what your contract says is the start of your contract, your continuous employment legally starts the day you joined the company.

You could enter 10 new contracts each with a different start date, your period of continuous employment remains the date you started at the company. Unless there is a clear 7 days break of employment.

Even if the contract says your start date for continuous employment is the date of your new contract and you sign it, it won't hold up at a Tribunal as you cannot sign away your statutory rights unless you have received independent legal advice about your rights paid for by your employer.

(ERA 1996 sec 203 and Carrington v Harwich Dock Co Ltd [1998] IRLR 567 [EAT]).

Thanks bassa

This seems to me that the company you TUPE over to is now looking at redundancy in the future, and service length of employees will be an obstacle to overcome

[Eloise01]

Re: Tupe stress

There are rather too many assumptions being made in the previous advice, and I would like to clarify several issues.

When did your employment with the original company begin?
You say you were hourly paid... (a) were you employed directly by the company, or by an agency (including an internal company agency) and (b) what were the contractual terms - were you guaranteed hours or was this a zero hours contract?
What exactly do you mean by "sign over or leave" - what did you sign???

[Eloise01]

Re: Tupe stress

Even if the contract says your start date for continuous employment is the date of your new contract and you sign it, it won't hold up at a Tribunal as you cannot sign away your statutory rights unless you have received independent legal advice about your rights paid for by your employer.

You can't EVER sign away your statutory rights, whether or not you have independant legal advice. You can only sign away your right to make a claim to an employment tribunal, subject to independant legal advice or advice from an independant trades union. And there is no legal obligation on the employer to pay for that advice - it is customary that employers pay, or pay a contribution, but there is no legislation that says that they must.

[gravytrain]

Re: Tupe stress

You can't EVER sign away your statutory rights, whether or not you have independant legal advice. You can only sign away your right to make a claim to an employment tribunal, subject to independant legal advice or advice from an independant trades union. And there is no legal obligation on the employer to pay for that advice - it is customary that employers pay, or pay a contribution, but there is no legislation that says that they must.

My ears man

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Tupe stress

Ditto

IF A post has been made in error, it is customary to behave in a civilized way with any retort. It is disrespectful and shows a distinct lack of any form of objectivity

I have referenced my opinion with established case law

Please be so kind as to direct any response refuting that case law before acting in complete ignorance of other peoples views

We are all individuals and have our own beliefs, the problem arises when people try and force others to follow their beliefs without any explanation or reference

[Eloise01]

Re: Tupe stress

Ditto

IF A post has been made in error, it is customary to behave in a civilized way with any retort. It is disrespectful and shows a distinct lack of any form of objectivity

I have referenced my opinion with established case law

Please be so kind as to direct any response refuting that case law before acting in complete ignorance of other peoples views

We are all individuals and have our own beliefs, the problem arises when people try and force others to follow their beliefs without any explanation or reference

Your opinion is based on no knowledge of pertinant facts. Without those case law is irrelevant.

I am surprised that you are not aware that case law does not exist to say that you cannot sign away your statutory rights - because it is the law of the land that you cannot do so.

[gravytrain]

Re: Tupe stress

Your opinion is based on no knowledge of pertinant facts. Without those case law is irrelevant.

I am surprised that you are not aware that case law does not exist to say that you cannot sign away your statutory rights - because it is the law of the land that you cannot do so.

I don;t understand why the antagonism, has someone made this aspect of the law your sacred turf, if so perhaps one of the team should advise other posters not to comment.

As for Force's comments , i didn't read his post to say what you infer anyway.

[stiffed]

Re: Tupe stress

My original employment with S3 commenced June 2002.

I was employed by S3 since that date not through an agency.

My contractual terms were 40 hours per week with the standard gov guide lines regarding short time working ect.

When we transferred over from S3 to PSL we were given new contracts to sign with our new employer as PSL on the contract. When we had our contracts terminated by PSL our previous employer who we had actually never left as this was only a payroll transfer took us back on under our original contract terms minus the length of service. Only a verbal assurance that this will be honored remains

[stiffed]

Re: Tupe stress

Can i have my thread back please:beagle:

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Tupe stress

An example of signing away a statutory employment right will be the Working Time Directive

Statutory provision states that a worker can work for a maximum of a 48 hour week

Yet their is provision for an "opt out" of that statutory legislation

[gravytrain]

Re: Tupe stress

Can i have my thread back please:beagle:

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: Tupe stress

My apologies:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

i made my statement in good faith

I will no longer comment on this thread until civility returns

[PlanB]

Re: Tupe stress

I will no longer comment on this thread until civility returns

So is this Goodbye then msl:

[Inca]

Re: Tupe stress

Hi stiffed,,sorry for the slight delay....bear with us