Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

Why are you appealing? There is no reason that you have to! And what are you going to do when they offer you your job back and then hang around for a couple of months gathering evidence to dismiss you fairly? And you never, ever start negotiations for what you will accept as a settlement. That is a sign of weakness. You wait to see what the employer offers, then you go back with more than you expect them to agree, and eventually you settle somewhere in between the two figures.

If you can prove now what has happened you go straight to a tribunal claim. They didn't give you the chance to appeal - you would be foolish to allow them the chance to hold an appeal and reverse their decision - at which point your tribunal claim falls because you cannot reasonably refuse reinstatement if you appeal.

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

Hi Eloise,

I spoke to ACAS and was told that I had to appeal as the employment tribunal would look unfavourably on my case if i didn't even though my previous employer didn't tell me there was a procedure or not? I was also told that I should outline the desirable outcome I wanted. The CAB also advised of the appeal, and to outline what I would accept!

I was told that I should make an unreasonable request, and then as you suggested meet somewhere between the two figures.

I would argue at tribunal as you suggest 'them taking me back would be just so they could then follow the correct procedure in a couple of months time'

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

I get so annoyed with ACAS and their rubbish advice. The purpose of appealing is to get your job back. Do you want it back? No.

You have perfectly legitimate grounds not to appeal which is no longer a legal requirement. At worst, if this went to a tribunal hearing, you might lose part of the award if your failure to appeal was deemed to be your fault. But it isn't. You were not advised of the right to appeal, you were told that your post was redundant and after your employment was ended by reason of redundancy the employer recruited almost immediately to the same position. If you appeal and if they reinstate you you cannot make a tribunal claim - it will be ruled out of jurisdiction because the employer has solved the issue and it is you refusing the solution. So you wouldn't be arguing anything at all at a tribunal because you will never get to a hearing. You do not appeal in order to achieve a settlement - you appeal to get the decision reversed. In unfairly dismissing you the employer has breached trust and confidence - an appeal will therefore not set right what you claim to be an unfair dismissal.

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

Oh dear this doesn't sound good for me then?

Can they just offer me my job back and the whole fact they haven't followed any procedure in the first place become irrelevant?

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

That is exactly what I am saying. An appeal is an appeal against the decision. Not an opening gambit for negotiations. If they change the decision then what do you have left to complain of. And can you please clarify whether it is the same job that they advertised or a similar job (which you stated elsewhere) because that could make a difference.

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

I'll keep my posts on here to stop confusion

It is the same role there was 7 of us in the team, all doing the same role.

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

I've spoken to ACAS again they have informed me I have nothing to lose as if they offer me my job back and I accept, I can then bring up this previous occurrence if they dismiss me at a later tribunal.

I have to say I'm not convinced, would I be best now seeking some proper legal advice do you think?

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

ACAS are talking rubbish - again! If you are dismissed at a later date a tribunal will examine the cause of your dismissal - not history. Do you seriously think that the employer won't find something? Something legitimate? A motivated employer can find a fair reason to sack Mother Theresa. Yes, I know she's actually dead but you see my point? Everyone does something wrong! Sometime. Somewhere. If you put in an appeal, then win - it shows the system works! So how do you complain about the system working when later on you are claiming it doesn't because it's an unfair dismissal.

Something about ACAS. It used to be good. And it's professional staff are still good. You don't talk to them when you phone. You talk to a call centre in which the staff have no legal skills, no legal training, three hours induction before being put on the phones, and a script!

Yes by all mean, get some legal advice. If you check the other site - under FAQ's, there's a sticky on getting legal advice. Use it.

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

Well I've received a response.

They are saying I was dismissed for poor performance, not made redundant as I thought.

I'm not sure where I stand now.

I have had reviews, and nothing has been highlighted to me regarding my performance. I have not signed off on any of my reviews either. I have had no disciplinary process started against me, or received any verbal or written warnings as to my performance.

My greatest concern now is a reference, I know they can refuse to provide one or very basic ie worked between dates, role, absence, Performance

The performance is the one I'm concerned about, as they are saying that is my reason for dismissal, however are they allowed to say that when they have followed no disciplinary process, issued me with any verbal or written warnings, this surely would come under an untruth?

[alham]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

well, not following the correct disciplinary procedures is quite a bad news for the company. You must appeal this decision and consider starting a tribunal hearing, even if just to clear your name, although, of course, a tribunal hearing might impinge your future employment prospects..

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

I agree - if you have qualfying service - ome year if your employment began before 5th April 2012 or two years after that....

I am still not clear - are you directly employed or has your employment been through an agency? Can you pleae clarify the dates for me?

[trufflestu]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

I had been employed for 22 months. I started my employment in May 2011

I'm not sure i understand how it can impinge my future employment?

[alham]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

If you go to the industrial tribunal future employers may take a view that you are "troublemaker". But if you are sacked and your new prospective employer receives a character reference containing unsubstantiated (as correct procedures have not been followed) allegation of inadequate performance your chances of any future employment are seriously affected anyway (they will have to include "grounds for dismissal" in the reference if asked).

[alham]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

You are caught between a rock and a hard place. Maybe a gentle conversation with an HR along the lines "you accuse me without following procedures, however tribunal will be expensive, etc.. How about you give me a good reference?)

[Eloise01]

Re: Made redundant, they are advertising for my job before and still are after.

Alham is close enough. We don't have industrial tribuanls any more - they are employment tribunals. But being a decade or so "out of date" on the jargon doesn't change facts. Taking your employer to a tribunal does not mean you will win, it doesn't get you a good reference, and there are employers who will never touch you with a barge pole if you do. That isn't a good reason not to - it is a good reason to think about what is important to you. Personally I would do it. But I have never been without employment and I have never needed to care. Principles are easy when you have nohing to lose. So I won't try to tell you what you ought to do. What do you want to do?