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cheeky so 7 sos

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  • cheeky so 7 sos

    I was doing my job exactly the way I've been told to do and something went wrong. I have NO worries about my continued employment, I will absolutely run rings around any disciplinary hearing etc that they may convene. I've been suspended till the middle of next week (with pay) for the first stage of the process (an investigation interview or such like to occur) which is fine by me. Now, my employers operate a third party service over several local, separate sites for a multinational.

    In the meantime pictures of said incident have floated around social media posted by various colleagues, none of which have anything to do with the incident, most, but not all of whom work on other sites, and, more importantly, none of whom know the facts in question. I knew this kind of thing could be likely & had blocked any "tagging" or linking of my profiles to these images.

    The person I have been told will carry out the initial investigation responded to some of these postings, I can't quote word for word as I viewed this on my smart phone whilst laying in bed. The post was (in my view) relatively fair but misguided. For me it clearly showed that this person was no longer capable of carrying out an independent investigation. I have screen grabs of earlier messages but not of that particular one (I was in bed), many of which have now been removed.

    Several of these posters are far from what I'd consider friends and I have no qualms at all about causing them mischief in terms of breaching dignity at work type codes. Though they didn't mention my name (as far as I'm aware) on public forums, my name will clearly have been linked to the event on the grapevine. Sharing private messages and pictures amongst themselves is one thing, public postings on social networks is in my view a form of harassment.

    I'd have no qualms about engaging in a "different type of conflict resolution" but, as most of them would struggle to get an equivalent job elsewhere, I'd actually like to do as much damage to these individuals as possible and maybe try and cause several of them to lose their employment. Harsh I know but this had F... ALL to do with them, was none of their business and, unless they were paying for this incident, should have kept their opinions to themselves.


    Can anyone guide me on rejecting the initial interview? (I'm yet to receive notification but have been told it's coming in the post). Using a lack of independence on the proposed interviewers part? Ultimately I've already got them by the balls, as I've said I will run rings around them with regard to the incident itself, I now wish to :

    1) maximise the time I'm absent from work with pay, in the first instance rejecting their initial interview due to bias

    2) penalise the big mouths who felt the urge to "trap off"

    3) get a public (within the work place) "acquittal" (struggling for words here) absolving me of all blame for the incident.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: cheeky so 7 sos

    We have a very good employment person, but you'll need to wait until later today for them to be online again. You've posted in exactly the right section of the site, so I'd be very surprised if they didn't pick it up.

    Things can go quiet at weekends, so bear with us.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: cheeky so 7 sos

      1) The most effective way to maximise the time you are absent from work with pay would be to go out of your way to annoy your employer - possibly by raising multiple grievances every step of the way and on minor issues of little or no relevance, or even by committing further acts of misconduct. Doing both of these things might be quite effective. It is almost certain that you will remain suspended for a longer period in order that the employer can ensure that they dot all their "i's" and cross all their "t's" before they dismiss you. Annoying the hell out of your employer when you are already suspended and under investigation for misconduct is not a free holiday period, and nor is it wise.

      You appear to be labouring under the misapprehansion that the investigating officer has to be "fair" to you. They don't. Any disciplinary panel must be "fair" in coming to a conclusion about the matter in front of them. However, I am relatively certain that what you mean by "fair" and what employment law defines as "fair" are two different things. This is a common mistake and frequently gets people into trouble - the employer has no legal requirement to prove that you did something, only that they have a reasonable belief that you did. Since there is evidence that some incident occurred, they have this bang to rights already - something happened and it seems to have involved you, since you do not deny it; and if they decide to proceed to a disciplinary (which they may not) that will be determined by the outcome of the investigation. THe investigating officer is operating as an agent of the employer - their job is to invetigate alleged misconduct for the employer, and, if they deem it necessary, to recommend disciplinary action and to act as the "prosecution". That is not a neutral position - they are "the case against you" if they feel there is one.

      If you are quite determined to act in this matter of your belief that the person appointed by the employer to investigate the matter should not do so, which is strongly against my advice, then you should submit a grievance. The employer may choose to summarily dismiss the grievance as not your concern (and who they appoint as investigating officer is not your concern). They may decide to consider / hear the grievance which will probably achieve a delay in the process. Or they may replace the investigating officer. Of course, if they also decide that you are playing silly beggars and deliberately upping the stakes, this may influence their view of you and the incident (something you could not possibly prove); or they may appoint someone who is less "fair but misguided" (in your view) and is outright antagonistic - getting this person replaced does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that you will also be in a better position.

      It is not in your power to refuse to attend any meetings as determined by the employer. If you do so you may lose your pay, and could be on unpaid suspension. Although you will also have given the employer something else to investigate (refusing a reasonable instruction) which may prolong your period of suspension as you seem to wish.

      2) "Dignity at work type codes" have no meaning in law, and this is not harassment in law. Harassment in employment law relates solely to actions which are directly caused by discrimination on the grounds of protected characteristics, and this is not the case here. Something happened, and I agree that your work colleagues have been most unwise in getting involved or commenting about it - privately or publicly. If you wish to pursue this matter you may submit grievances against the individuals concerned. Whether the employer chooses to do anything about this, or what they decide to do, is not in your control however. You have no right to insist that they are "penalised" or punished. I agree that this was none of their business, and, as I said, it was unwise of your colleagues to get involved in this way; but equally, something happened, something happened that was photographed, and then those photographs circulated. This sort of thing is as hard to stop in the modern age as whispers in the smokers corner used to be. I think it is highly unlikely that anyone (other than possibly you) will lose their employment over this - they may get a slapped wrist or even possibly a warning. However, based on what you have said here, the individuals concerned appear to have already been "dealt with" by the employer, in that they have been told not to comment and to remove their posts - if they have received such instructions and have complied with them, and do not further breach the expected standard of conduct, it is highly unlikely the employer will be inclined to take the matter any further.

      3) You have no right to this. The disciplinary process has begun. If, at the end of the investigation, the recommendation is that no further action should be taken, you will have the suspension lifted and will return to work. If a disciplinary is held, the outcome of that disciplinary is a confidential matter; and you may, or may not, return to work, depending on what the outcome is. The employer may choose to manage a return to work by "exhonerating" you - if that is what happens - but they are under no legal obligation to do so.

      4) I know you didn't ask four questions, so this is a "free answer". I do not know whether your bravado in this matter is something for the audience here, or whether it genuinely reflects your attitude. However, I feel I must point out to you that anyone who is suspended pending investigation into their conduct, and who has absolutely no worries about their future employment, and who is quite convinced that they will run rings around their employer at any disciplinary, is one of two things:
      (a) either able to prove beyond any doubt at all that the thing that they have been accused of did not happen (and the contents of your post seem to suggest this is not the case), or
      (b) seriously deluded as to the protections that employment law affords them, and the ease with which an employer can dismiss fairly in law.

      Even if this particular incident does not warrant dismissal in itself, seriously annoy your employer enough (or your managers and colleagues) and you may as well paint a target on your back. Nobody is so well-behaved and infallible in the workplace that an employer who is looking for an excuse, can't find one. Or two if that is what it takes. I would therefore strongly recommend that you do not continue to dig yourself holes by displaying such a cavalier attitude towards this matter. Suspension is not an extra holiday, and you should be seeking to exhonerate yourself of all blame and get back to work as soon as possible - not seeking ways to extend your "leave" by whatever means possible, regardless of how this may be perceived by the employer; or looking for methods of seeking revenge and getting colleagues dismissed. And I am not sure what a "different type of conflict resolution" is, but I must certainly warn you against any unlawful activity, if that is what it means, which will certainly see you dismissed.

      The best advice you will ever get in such circumstances is to put your head down, co-operate, and concentrate on putting a clear and calm defence of your situation - preferably satisfying the investigating officer that there is no case to answer, or if not, convincing a disciplinary panel that you were either not to blame, or that the circumstances do not warrant a serious penalty. Do not go out of your way to antagonise, and do not treat it as a joke, or an opportunity to lay into your managers or your collegaues.

      I am not convinced that you are going to take this advice, but you need to be fully cognisant of the fact that your attitude, your approach and your conduct in this matter generally may have a significant impact on the outcome and, if you have a future with this employer, what (or even how long) that future may be.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: cheeky so 7 sos

        Thanks for your input. I'd read a few threads before posting and was hoping to get an opinion from Eloise01, as it appears that you know your onions. Many thanks for taking the time to post a reply.

        There's no bravado in my post as the incident happened when I was doing what I was asked to do.

        It has come to light that the very same thing was prevented (at literally the last second) 2 weeks earlier and had been discussed in a Health & safety meeting a week ago but the findings/new practice (or any other way of describing it) had not been passed on to "us" and in particular myself, I happened to be the next unfortunate to attempt to carry out the task as asked. I'm fortunate in that my employment is one of 3 income streams and is ever diminishing in importance to the point where I've been questioning myself for a few months as to if it's worth it any more. Getting dismissed,however, would be unacceptable to me and I shall leave at a time of my choosing.

        Eloise01 Thanks for the advice on battles I can only win by sheer cheek: an exoneration notice etc, and about pushing my luck on other matters and directing my attention to the true purpose of an investigation, thereby reminding me to focus on the important aspects of dealing with that. I suspect you had a pretty good understanding of what a "different type of conflict resolution" meant and the obvious results that would follow on from that.

        My circumstance are in effect as follows:

        Them:
        "we are investigating you for doing exactly what we asked you to do, exactly the way we told you to do, and even though we knew there was a problem, we didn't tell you to do it differently"

        Me:
        "good luck with that!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: cheeky so 7 sos

          Originally posted by yugzy View Post
          Thanks for your input. I'd read a few threads before posting and was hoping to get an opinion from Eloise01, as it appears that you know your onions. Many thanks for taking the time to post a reply.

          There's no bravado in my post as the incident happened when I was doing what I was asked to do.

          It has come to light that the very same thing was prevented (at literally the last second) 2 weeks earlier and had been discussed in a Health & safety meeting a week ago but the findings/new practice (or any other way of describing it) had not been passed on to "us" and in particular myself, I happened to be the next unfortunate to attempt to carry out the task as asked. I'm fortunate in that my employment is one of 3 income streams and is ever diminishing in importance to the point where I've been questioning myself for a few months as to if it's worth it any more. Getting dismissed,however, would be unacceptable to me and I shall leave at a time of my choosing.

          Eloise01 Thanks for the advice on battles I can only win by sheer cheek: an exoneration notice etc, and about pushing my luck on other matters and directing my attention to the true purpose of an investigation, thereby reminding me to focus on the important aspects of dealing with that. I suspect you had a pretty good understanding of what a "different type of conflict resolution" meant and the obvious results that would follow on from that.

          My circumstance are in effect as follows:

          Them:
          "we are investigating you for doing exactly what we asked you to do, exactly the way we told you to do, and even though we knew there was a problem, we didn't tell you to do it differently"

          Me:
          "good luck with that!"
          Honestly? An unexpectedly mature and reasoned response. If you want to dump the emotions about life being unfair, and people being people,which you seem to have done reasonably well, and tell me what the actual incident was and what is happening about that, I may be able too help you form a defence.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: cheeky so 7 sos

            Just to say thank you again to Eloise for reminding me to focus on the important points.

            To update this, I did manage to extend my suspension & all went relatively well in the hearings etc.

            As is often the way with these things though, I have painted a big target on my back now and certain exclusive advantages that I had negotiated for myself will almost certainly come under "attack" in the coming months, so I can well see myself back on here again in the future!!

            My circumstances are very specific ( and therefore easily identifiable) so there's no way I'd put them on a public forum. How does one access the private forum on here?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: cheeky so 7 sos

              Originally posted by yugzy View Post
              Just to say thank you again to Eloise for reminding me to focus on the important points.

              To update this, I did manage to extend my suspension & all went relatively well in the hearings etc.

              As is often the way with these things though, I have painted a big target on my back now and certain exclusive advantages that I had negotiated for myself will almost certainly come under "attack" in the coming months, so I can well see myself back on here again in the future!!

              My circumstances are very specific ( and therefore easily identifiable) so there's no way I'd put them on a public forum. How does one access the private forum on here?
              Pay up! You can subscribe from the home page, or contact Celestine who will happily tell you how to pay! The good news is that it isn't expensive.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: cheeky so 7 sos

                To subscribe to the VIP area, go to settings, the third group down is 'My settings', under 'My account', the last item is paid subscriptions. Under VIP member subscription, choose one year £9 or 10 years £25. See below. :grin: Attached Thumbnails

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: cheeky so 7 sos

                  Thanks FP - I am rubbish at good instructions like that!

                  Comment

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