Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

[MattIR021]

Dear All,

I'm new to the forum, so hoping I can get some advice here.

I lost my job at the end of October due to Gross Misconduct (A moment of madness which I admit) by bringing the company into disrepute, something I deeply regret, but I have a number of issues in relation to this that I would like some clarity on please.

I was continually employed as staff at the business for over 11 and a half years.

A) There was an investigation into my actions which ran in line with a grievance I raised against my line manager, I did not receive the interview notes in relation to my misconduct until the day I appeared in front of the Head of HR and CEO when losing my job, is there a case to answer there, that I should have had those notes prior to that meeting?

B) There are two other incidents by other members of staff of Gross misconduct, one being a member of staff making physical threats to another, this was documented and although it didn't happen to me I was on the same site abroad at the time and raised it as part of my grievance because I felt 'who was next', this was ignored by management even though it had been raised on several occasions, the grievance outcome stated it was now being looked into but now several months on I am told by the staff member who was threatened that still no action has been taken. My question here is they used there own misconduct procedure to sack me including an investigation but did not with this case, is that considered to be unfair? The second is a member of staff who has been caught drinking alcohol at work on several occasions, let's say he is in a position where they do not want to take action, again this mounts to gross misconduct according to the company rules, but no action taken.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Matt

[Eloise01]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

I am afraid that it is all moot - the dismissal occurred more than three months ago. The deadline for submitting a tribunal claim is three months less a day from the date of dismissal. There is no case to answer - you are out of time.

In terms of academic interest only, therefore:

a) Ideally yes, but this on its own would not have been enough to to substantiate a case of unfair dismissal; and you could have asked for a postponement or for a break if you needed time to review the notes as part of your defence.

b) You cannot defend an allegation of gross misconduct on the basis of what may or may not happen in other cases. Every individual case is judged by an employer on its own merits - and mitigations. The fact that someone else was not dismissed for gross misconduct does not mean that you should not have been dismissed for gross misconduct. A tribunal will not consider such evidence - they do not have the jurisdiction to consdier other cases, only yours, so their decision is based upon the facts relating to your dismissal and nothing else.

[Kafka]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Did you seek union advice here if that's possible, as you haven't mentioned it?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Dear All,

I'm new to the forum, so hoping I can get some advice here.

I lost my job at the end of October due to Gross Misconduct (A moment of madness which I admit) by bringing the company into disrepute, something I deeply regret, but I have a number of issues in relation to this that I would like some clarity on please.

As Eloisa said above, the deadline for claiming unfair dismissal has now passed.

I just want to add that 'bringing the company into disrepute' is often used as an umbrella to cover all sorts of things which would otherwise not constitute proper grounds for dismissal. Something similar happened to me nearly 10 years ago, I was sacked for alleged Gross Misconduct, the alleged offences were very trivial and related to exchanging emails and posting my work online, none of which brought the company into disrepute, but when it comes to Financial Intitution$, any argument is good and they seem to have the full backing of the law, even when later on they brought themselves into disrepute, first with their dodgy dealings leading to the credit crunch, then with the LIBOR rigging and all sorts of dodgy deals. I bet they can still use the argument to unfairly sack people. :rant: :rant: :rant:

I DIDN'T have such an explicit clause in my contract but a friend of mine who was working for another company and who got sacked along with me had such a clause about bringing the company into disrepute and anything that would give the company cause to mistrust him, or something of the sort. In other words, any reason is a good reason to sack you! :mad2: :mad2:

Rant over! :grin:

[Kafka]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Its a pity this wasn't raised sooner because there are some interesting issues here,such as the grievance and the disciplinary running in parallel, even though the chronology isn't clear.

[leclerc]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Dear All,

I'm new to the forum, so hoping I can get some advice here.

I lost my job at the end of October due to Gross Misconduct (A moment of madness which I admit) by bringing the company into disrepute, something I deeply regret, but I have a number of issues in relation to this that I would like some clarity on please.
Matt, I was sacked for the same reason by RBS Group. I leaked information to people that I knew would end up in the press and I was sacked.
I was continually employed as staff at the business for over 11 and a half years.

A) There was an investigation into my actions which ran in line with a grievance I raised against my line manager, I did not receive the interview notes in relation to my misconduct until the day I appeared in front of the Head of HR and CEO when losing my job, is there a case to answer there, that I should have had those notes prior to that meeting
Hindsight in a brilliant things and what Eloise has said means that that is all it is. My area manager attempted to bring forward the statutory time limit forward due to their incompetence in regards to sending the evidence that they would rely on to me to the wrong address. Ultimately, I refused to attend the original meeting and put that in writing. In hindsight, so should you and that would have guaranteed you two more days of full pay(if you had been suspended on full pay).
B) There are two other incidents by other members of staff of Gross misconduct, one being a member of staff making physical threats to another, this was documented and although it didn't happen to me I was on the same site abroad at the time and raised it as part of my grievance because I felt 'who was next', this was ignored by management even though it had been raised on several occasions, the grievance outcome stated it was now being looked into but now several months on I am told by the staff member who was threatened that still no action has been taken. My question here is they used there own misconduct procedure to sack me including an investigation but did not with this case, is that considered to be unfair? The second is a member of staff who has been caught drinking alcohol at work on several occasions, let's say he is in a position where they do not want to take action, again this mounts to gross misconduct according to the company rules, but no action taken.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Matt

Matt, how a company reacts to an incident and how they reacted in your case is unfortunately not something that you need to rely on. I am interested in why you are now asking the question about regulations and procedures? When I was suspended I researched the topic, got some good advice from people here and ultimately, the sacking did not harm me. It did bug me and it did take time to be able to explain that to a new employee but life moves on.

See above.

[Kafka]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

the sacking did not harm me.

:laugh: It made you famous as the whistle blower :horn:

At least it allowed you to come out of the closet you had been in since 2006 and photos of meets no longer needed to have you airbrushed out :spy:

I even heard you on the radio last year while I was out cruising
:car::music:

[MattIR021]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Matt, how a company reacts to an incident and how they reacted in your case is unfortunately not something that you need to rely on. I am interested in why you are now asking the question about regulations and procedures? When I was suspended I researched the topic, got some good advice from people here and ultimately, the sacking did not harm me. It did bug me and it did take time to be able to explain that to a new employee but life moves on.

See above.

Thanks for the answer, in relation to the part where you were sacked for leaking information to the press (I was in a pretty high profile job), that is what my employer did they leaked information about me to the press, including the fact that I had health issues, which was a confidential email between me and my line manager.

[Eloise01]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Thanks for the answer, in relation to the part where you were sacked for leaking information to the press (I was in a pretty high profile job), that is what my employer did they leaked information about me to the press, including the fact that I had health issues, which was a confidential email between me and my line manager.

This is an entirely seperate matter from those you raised in your original post. You are still too late to claim unfair dismissal, whether or not you had a case to argue.

Can you prove this statement?

[MattIR021]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

This is an entirely seperate matter from those you raised in your original post. You are still too late to claim unfair dismissal, whether or not you had a case to argue.

Can you prove this statement?

Hi Eloise,

Yes and no, I have the email that I sent to my line manager saying that I was suffering from stress at work, when I then met up with the CEO during my period of illness to discuss why I felt how I did, he said that my line manager gave the journalist the line about me suffering from ill health to try and get the story about my gambling addiction stopped.

[Eloise01]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Ah - so they already intended to run a story which would be damaging to them and to you? I think you might struggle to demonstrate they did anything irresponsible in that.

[leclerc]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Thanks for the answer, in relation to the part where you were sacked for leaking information to the press (I was in a pretty high profile job), that is what my employer did they leaked information about me to the press, including the fact that I had health issues, which was a confidential email between me and my line manager.

I have to agree with Eloise on this one but surely stating you were in ill health rather than had a gambling problem was better than saying that you had a gambling problem, no?

[MattIR021]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

I have to agree with Eloise on this one but surely stating you were in ill health rather than had a gambling problem was better than saying that you had a gambling problem, no?

Sorry if I wasn't clear, it actually mentioned both, the reason for them telling the journalist about my ill health was to try and stop the story but the journalist went ahead and printed both parts.

[leclerc]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

Sorry if I wasn't clear, it actually mentioned both, the reason for them telling the journalist about my ill health was to try and stop the story but the journalist went ahead and printed both parts.

It is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 to disclose the information without your consent which is separate from the issue of sacking or otherwise. Did the journalist disclose who he had got the information from or did the company give a statement to that effect?

[Eloise01]

Re: Sacked for Gross Misconduct - Questions

It is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 to disclose the information without your consent which is separate from the issue of sacking or otherwise. Did the journalist disclose who he had got the information from or did the company give a statement to that effect?

I agree. But I also think there is a lot more to this than you are saying, and that it may not be at all in your interests for that to be the feature of a court case!

If you can prove the breach of the DPA - which I suspect may not be that easy - then you can report it to to ICO. Which I would expect to benefit you in no way - at best they will get rapped nuckles for this, and possibly not even that.

But in terms of the employment, well, to be honest, if I had a gambling addiction, drank myself under the table every night and rolled up into court hungover, then the local rag might take an interest. if it was a quiet week, in a quiet month, and they couldn't find a story about someone not having paid their TV licence. If they even noticed. So if you had a journalist following you and your problems (and in saying that I am not judging you on them - anyone can get addicted to anything and that's part of the knocks one takes in life) then it must have been a very interesting story. So your employer said something along the lines of "he isn't really a problem, he didn't do anything wrong, he's just been under a lot of stress recently"? To try to deflect a story that was damaging to them and to you? In terms of damages, this doesn't amount to anything, which pretty much closes the door on legal action - the story about a gambling addiction would have done all the damage without anything else, and if anything, a period of ill health or stress might be considered a mitigation. Many people are more understanding of a problemmatic behaviour when they believe there is a "good explanation" for it. It may not be the way things were or are - but people are more forgiving of a health problem than an addiction in general.

Matt - it seems abundantly clear that for a whole variety of reasons, you and the employer "needed" to go your seperate ways. Frankly, it takes a rather stupid employer not to be able to achieve a fair dismissal if they want someone dismissed. Everything indicates that they were not that stupid. And you left it too late anyway. You may not have legal recourse, but that doesn't mean people her may not have some good advice for you. You do not strike me as a daft person - you could have googled unfair dismissal and found out in seconds that you couldn't claim. You came on a forum instead. That suggests to me that you may feel that there is more to this than simply a straightforward legal answer, and maybe there is other help people could give? It strikes me that you may have made some foolish choices in your life and that has led to some bad consequences. Well hell, if we all wrote down our own foolish choices we could paper the Great Wall of China! Twice probably! Nobody here cares if you made some foolish choices - probably the worst that anyone can say is that they were foolish. But you seem to have dug a hole and may need a hand getting out of it. If you give people here a chance, I think you'll find a few who will be willing to give you that hand.

Of course, I might also be talking twaddle and you have a nice new job and everything in the garden is rosy - in which case, just ignore me and I do eventually go away...