Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes :)

[leclerc]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

My flatmate has told me that the government have closed the "loophole" that allowed the case to succeed last night. Is that correct? Amazing how fast that they can react when they want to

[Eloise01]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

Please don't judge me but I was watch This morning earlier and that dreadful DM columnist Quentin Letts who was saying they won on a technicality (when asked to explain he said it would take too long ). He then said that she should have worked as she was quite happy to accept the benefits.
Another reason (if I needed one) to hate the DM (hides from PlanB)

However, I am afraid that this was correct - in terms of the ruling the judges were clear that the claimants won on a technicality, The judges upheld the governments right to have such schemes; and they rejected any human rights argument that people could not be forced to participate in such schemes. The ruling was indeed on a technicality - the regulations did not specifically permit the government to withhold JSA upon refusal to participate in two of the governments workfare schemes - the Work Programme and the Community Action Programme. A third scheme - Mandatory Work Activity - was not affected by the ruling and continues. Basically, the regulations did not comply with the requirements of the Act of Parliament giving the Department for Work and Pensions the power to introduce them. There, that didn't take too long at all.

The government laid new regulations to close this loophole in fromt of parliament on Tuesday. They are not yet in force but will no doubt be very soon. Until then the DWP cannot use the sanction of refusing JSA to people who refuse to go on the WP or CAP - but they can do so in terms of the Mandatort Work Activity.

[bluebottle]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

I don't think we've heard the last of this and I would not be surprised if it was challenged further under the Human Rights Act. Also, who is say that the coalition government won't be brought down by a vote of no confidence in the near future and their flagship slave labour scheme consigned to the dustbin of history?

The Tories bang on about welfare claimants being scroungers and freeloaders. I think the Tories need to look in the mirror a bit more often. Those who do everything they can to avoid paying tax and leave it to those who work and pay tax on pensions to pay for public services which the tax dodgers then make full use of knowing they haven't contributed a penny towards those services are the real scroungers and freeloaders.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

If there were more jobs there would be less 'scroungers and freeloaders' claiming benefits. I know people who would like to work but can't find any work. We also have to be realistic: it's fair enough for youngsters without qualifications to work in Poundland, etc. but there are many older people with years of professional experience behind them and financial commitments to match, I don't mean luxury lifestyles but simply having a family and a mortgage. It's just not possible to support a family on minimum wage without relying on benefits of some sort: tax credits, income support, housing benefit, etc. There are a lot more people claiming benefits than just the unemployed. If you work more than 16 hours a week you can't sign on for JSA, but that doesn't mean people on low-paying jobs are not receiving help, they just don't show up on the stats as unemployed, which is one reason for the CaMoron (Capitalist Moron) government to want to force people into slave labour. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

The only way to really cut the benefits bill is to promote not just job creation, but also business start-ups. Many unemployed people could set up by themselves but the DWP doesn't offer much help in that department, they make you apply for full-time work simply because that's a lot easier for them and all they want is people off their books, they don't actually help people become useful again by exploring every avenue. :rant: :rant: :rant:

[bluebottle]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

If there were more jobs there would be less 'scroungers and freeloaders' claiming benefits. I know people who would like to work but can't find any work. We also have to be realistic: it's fair enough for youngsters without qualifications to work in Poundland, etc. but there are many older people with years of professional experience behind them and financial commitments to match, I don't mean luxury lifestyles but simply having a family and a mortgage. It's just not possible to support a family on minimum wage without relying on benefits of some sort: tax credits, income support, housing benefit, etc. There are a lot more people claiming benefits than just the unemployed. If you work more than 16 hours a week you can't sign on for JSA, but that doesn't mean people on low-paying jobs are not receiving help, they just don't show up on the stats as unemployed, which is one reason for the CaMoron (Capitalist Moron) government to want to force people into slave labour. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

The only way to really cut the benefits bill is to promote not just job creation, but also business start-ups. Many unemployed people could set up by themselves but the DWP doesn't offer much help in that department, they make you apply for full-time work simply because that's a lot easier for them and all they want is people off their books, they don't actually help people become useful again by exploring every avenue. :rant: :rant: :rant:

I think you've summed it up very succinctly, FP. I'm forced to claim ESA and DLA because of a debilitating neurological condition. I have a pension from when I was in the police force, but it is not enough to pay all bills, hence, ESA and DLA. I was working with disabled persons before the neurological condition set in. Ironic, isn't it?

[jon1965]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

To be honest my point was less about it being on a technicality than that odious little man Quentin Letts so full of self righteous right wing crap. People like him write in well read daily papers and influence the middle classes into thinking that all people on benefit are work shy scroungers. As was said to him, the woman in question, surely by volunteering in a museum she was learning skills and helping the community as well.

Words fail me

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

To be honest my point was less about it being on a technicality than that odious little man Quentin Letts so full of self righteous right wing crap. People like him write in well read daily papers and influence the middle classes into thinking that all people on benefit are work shy scroungers. As was said to him, the woman in question, surely by volunteering in a museum she was learning skills and helping the community as well.

Words fail me

That's because it's much easier to make accusations and pass judgment than to put forward solutions. But he's not the only one, I'm sure you 'know' someone on another forum with the same ideas! :rant: :rant:

If they want to make claimants work, they should get them to do useful, voluntary work such as working for CAB where many are volunteers and they've been cutting back services. There would be no need to cut them back if they got claimants to do, say a day a week or a couple of days part-time, the could have a full house. This is just an example of many. Of course if people are expected to travel to work, they should at least have their expenses paid (petrol, train/bus fares, lunch, etc.)

They could also organise schemes in conjuction with charities to get people to volunteer in charity shops, assist with fundraising, etc. It could go a lot further: people with suitable skills (yes, there are such people on the dole) could work part-time for the main charities doing admin, marketing, design, etc. rather than those guys having to pay salaries. This would help both the charity and the unemployed individuals.

It's not rocket science and there's no reason whatsoever why people should be forced to work for large commercial enterprises! :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

"It's not rocket science and there's no reason whatsoever why people should be forced to work for large commercial enterprises!"

Of course there's a reason. Politicians probably have a significant number of shares in those private enterprises. Who knows if Ian Duncan Smith is a friend of Poundland owners?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

"It's not rocket science and there's no reason whatsoever why people should be forced to work for large commercial enterprises!"

Of course there's a reason. Politicians probably have a significant number of shares in those private enterprises. Who knows if Ian Duncan Smith is a friend of Poundland owners?

I've always said shares and shareholders are the root of all evil! :grin:

[jon1965]

Re: Excellent news for people forced into government back-to-work schemes

Says her who has all the shares in a limited company!