Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Probably not much to investigate in a case like this, however, I was under the impression you couldn't be dismissed for being absent just one day, even if it was unauthorized, however, there may be other outcomes from a disciplinary.

As I said, I doubt a dismissal would be the outcome - unless of course, it isn't the first disciplinary. But there is nothing in law to say that someone can't be dismissed for being absent for one day. If you already happened to be on a final written warning, one hour would be enough!

[Celestine]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I'm going to stay self employed I think!!

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I'm going to stay self employed I think!!

At least then you only have yourself to blame for the rotten hours and low pay - to say nothing of the taskmaster you have as a boss!

But to be balanced, most people sail through their entire working lives with nary a problem - no disciplinaries, and at worst a whinge or two but no real grievances. Unfortunately nobody ever posts to boards liike this saying "My manager is great, my employer very fair, and although I didn't get as much of a pay rise as I'd have liked, all things considered it wasn't too bad..."

[TUTTSI]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Well I am self employed and still got the employee of the year award

I'm going to stay self employed I think!!

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Well I am self employed and still got the employee of the year award

Awarding it to yourself does not count!

[wales01man]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I was self employed and came second in employee of the year and i was the only employee durr?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

No it was awarded by the big bosses at our xmas do in St Moritz they presented me with a huge cup with my name engraved on it+ a holiday to Majorca with my hubby. Since then they have wanted my pound of flesh - a method in their madness.

Awarding it to yourself does not count!

[jon1965]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I appreciate that there is nothing to stop someone for being dismissed for one offence of unauthorised absence if they are already on a final warning or are within their probationary period.

However to do it without proper investigation and follow the acas code could very well leave them open to a claim of unfair dismissal

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I appreciate that there is nothing to stop someone for being dismissed for one offence of unauthorised absence if they are already on a final warning or are within their probationary period.

However to do it without proper investigation and follow the acas code could very well leave them open to a claim of unfair dismissal

There is nothing to investigate if the person was absent, and that absence was unauthorised! The disciplinary gives them an opportunity to put their defence. An investigation may be good practice - it is not required by the law.

Probationary periods have no meaning at all in law - they are entirely irrelevant and exist for the employers purposes, not for legal ones. Anyone can be sacked for almost any reason (or none) - excluding certain reasons such as discrimination, whistleblowing and trades union activity - if they have less than one years service or two years service if their employment began on or after 5th April 2012.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

I'm going to stay self employed I think!!

Same here! My last perm job ended in redundancy after only a year due to company liquidation (although they still operate under a different company and I still work for them as a ltd co). My previous perm job ended nearly 10 years ago, when I went through the whole process of disciplinary, investigations, etc. leading to Le Sack! :ohwell:

[jon1965]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Eloise I must disagree
Probationary periods can end employment without notice etc.

As for the absence, an employer who used best practise would want to investigate the circumstances that led to the absence. If this is just at a lower disciplinary level then this can be done at the same time as the disciplinary, if it could lead to dismissal then ACAS codes hold some weight especially if you have the necessary service.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

There is nothing to investigate if the person was absent, and that absence was unauthorised! The disciplinary gives them an opportunity to put their defence. An investigation may be good practice - it is not required by the law.

Probationary periods have no meaning at all in law - they are entirely irrelevant and exist for the employers purposes, not for legal ones. Anyone can be sacked for almost any reason (or none) - excluding certain reasons such as discrimination, whistleblowing and trades union activity - if they have less than one years service or two years service if their employment began on or after 5th April 2012.

It's been explained to me that has to do with the notice period, contracts often stipulate just a week's notice on either side during this period. Employees are also often paid less during this period, I had one of them where the contract said after the successful completion of the 3 months probation I'd be earning £3k extra a year. I also know employers who extend the period to keep people on lower salaries.

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Eloise I must disagree
Probationary periods can end employment without notice etc.

As for the absence, an employer who used best practise would want to investigate the circumstances that led to the absence. If this is just at a lower disciplinary level then this can be done at the same time as the disciplinary, if it could lead to dismissal then ACAS codes hold some weight especially if you have the necessary service.

And I am afraid that I must disagree with you because that would be unlawful! In law a contract can be terminated without notice by the employer in only two instances - for gross misconduct (after a disciplinary has taken place) and during the first month of employment. To terminate a contract at the end of a probationary period without notice, no matter what that contract says, is unlawful.

And I suggest that you read the ACAS code again. It says that employers ought to carry out necessary investigations - it does not say that they must carry out investigations. If the employer, in their judgement, does not consider an investigation necessary, then that is their perogative. There is no instance in law where a case has been won on the basis that no investigation was carried out.

[Eloise01]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

It's been explained to me that has to do with the notice period, contracts often stipulate just a week's notice on either side during this period. Employees are also often paid less during this period, I had one of them where the contract said after the successful completion of the 3 months probation I'd be earning £3k extra a year. I also know employers who extend the period to keep people on lower salaries.

Yes, that is true in some cases, but this is an example of what I was saying. The probationary period is there, in such instances, for the convenience of the employer to "test drive" the employee before giving them better terms (although there is actually no requirement to improve terms after the end of a probationary period - many employers do not). Probationary periods are contract law - not per se employment law. So the terms of the probationary contract must be adhered to. For example, if the employer allows the robationary period to expire without terminating or extending it before the end of the period, then the contract automatically moves on to the post probationary terms. There is no requirement in law to "confirm" probation, because probation doesn't exist in UK law. Some European countries actually have specific probationary contracts in law - when you start with an employer you get a probationary contract for a specified (in law) period of time. During that contract you have no employment rights. If the employer wishes to retain you they must, at the end of that contract, provide a "permanant" contract and you get full employment protection from the start of that contract. It is a system which I am particularly fond of. I accept that an employer needs to ascertain that someone can perform their role, but I do not see that it should take two years (or even a year) for them to do so unless they are singularly stupid. If there are fair reasons to dismiss then it should not be beyond the wit of an employer to be able to comply with a fair process whether someone has four months service or four years service - the requirements are not that onerous!

[jon1965]

Re: Disciplinary for unauthorised absence

Please read what I say. As you say you can be dismissed without notice within the 1st month of employment, so if your probationary is 3 weeks as it is/was with McDonalds ....case rested m'lud.

You state with some certainty that no one has ever won a case because no investigation was carried out, that is far too simplistic argument. If no investigation was carried out then that is probably one of several breaches within the best practise. Acas code of conduct is not law however failure to follow it will probably give cause to uphold any ET.