Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

[Matikata]

Hey there guys,

I wasn't too sure where to post this, but I'm going to try here and then hopefully someone can point me in the right direction =]

I'll start with the basics;

I work at the O2 Academy in Oxford (Or did, until today, when I was sacked over the phone).

The O2 employ Showsec to take care of security within the venue (So it's Showsec I officially have a contract with).


Before Christmas 2012, around the beginning of December, after work, we were allowed to stay for drinks in the venue. We ended up having quite a few. I was chatting to this girl from America who was black, the conversation went like this (and this is after talking without knowing each others names etc);

Girl: Hey I'm Korell
Me: If I'm honest, I'm that drunk that I probably wont remember your name... Can I call you black dave instead?
*She bursts out laughing and says yes, and we continue to have a conversation about work and what we do outside of work*

A couple of weeks later, it's the staff christmas party (on the 16th Dec), and at some point Korell comes up to me;

Korell: Hey do you remember me?!
Me: uhh...
Korell: I'm black dave!
Me: Oh yeah!

we have another giggle about it, and she mentions something about Baa Baa Blacksheep being banned from schools and it's changed to Baa Baa Rainbow sheep, so we should be politically correct and call her Rainbow Dave from now on. We have a laugh then part ways to our own friends etc.

This was around midnight - 1am. Fast forward to around 8am, there is myself and four others sat in one of the dressing rooms of the venue, and there is one female, who I've met once before tonight, but bumped into earlier in the night and had a chat and a laugh with. She says:

Girl: Mate go get me a drink
Me: Sorry love, I don't take orders from women

Then that was it. I then went and got drinks for everyone anyway ha.

One of the guys, every time I said anything, would say "God why are you talking?" and be a bit of a prick to me, then starts calling me racist and sexist. Apparently he over head the conversation me and Korell had earlier in the evening. A few moments later, him and one of the other guys get up and restrain me, drag me across the venue and throw me into the door, then push me through it and close the door. I then go back to the entrance and the cleaning people let me back in because I'm still wearing my work uniform, to go and get my things from the staff room to make my way home. Simon then follows me out, and then grips me up against the staffroom door saying some stuff about how I should leave etc.

Being thrown into the door is probably on CCTV, and being gripped up against the staff room is probably on CCTV. Also, the two guys that threw me out were doing lines of cocain on the table before they took me out.

I disregard everything as everyone has been drinking for like, 8 or 9 hours and you know, people do silly things when they're drunk.

So around the 15th of January I get a call from my boss saying that I've been suspended from work due to a complaint being made about me being racist, and that I can't come back to work until statements are taken and it's all resolved. I say OK.

Today (well yesterday, the 23rd) I get a call from my boss saying that I'm sacked from work because of the offensive and racist comment I made about "Black Dave" and for being sexist and thinking I'm above women with the comment I made to the girl about not taking orders from women.

He explains to me that Simon and Ian both wrote statements about how I was racially offensive to Korell, and sexist to the other girl, and that I apparently said I didn't like taking orders from my boss because he's black (he's also the one who's been phoning me up about everything).

The last point is absolute BS. I get on very well with my boss, and I'm not racist anyway. In fact I said to Simon when he gripped me up against the staffroom door that my grandad is polish, my girlfriend is dutch and my best friend is jamaican.

Anyway, I'm sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense, I'm just trying to provide all the details I can in hopes that someone can help me.

I haven't been asked for a statement, neither has Korell. I haven't mentioned the "assault" I guess you would call it, by Simon and Ian or mentioned the CCTV in case it "goes missing".

So there we have it, in a nut shell, a private conversation between myself and a friend after hours, was found offensive by a random white guy, who then complained and had me sacked because I was offensive to my friend, and neither I nor my friend have been interviewed or been asked to give statements (I'm not even sure Korell knows about it).


What should I do? Because it's such a random and messed up thing, I really don't have the foggiest where to start.

Part of me wants to try and press charges against Simon for handling me and gripping me up, if the CCTV is still there, another part of me wants to complain to the manager of that particular O2 about not asking me for a statement or not getting any warning and let him know that Simon and Ian were doing lines of coke etc, another part of me wants to take it higher, but I really don't know where or what to do.

I know I might sound kinda childish about grassing them up, but at the end of the day, they've cost me a job when I've done nothing to them.

If anyone could give me any help whatsoever, I'd be so grateful!

Cheers =]

Matti

[Eloise01]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

I am sitting here trying to decide whether you are for real. I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that you may be. I find the things that you said offensive too, and I wish that I could say that I am astonished that you don't understand why saying such things are offensive. They most certainly are racist and sexist, and you need to understand that simply because the person you say something to does not find it so, or appears not to find it so, does not mean for one minute that it isn't - nor that other people who overhear such comments made by you are not able to complain. It is not required that someone be black, or female, to find racism and/or sexism offensive.

That said, there is much information missing from this if we are to give any advice at all:
How long have you worked for Showsec?
On what basis do you work for Showsec - what is your contract with them, and is this agency / contractor work?
Who actually dismissed you - O2 or Showsec?
If you were not at work, how would these people know that you work there and who to complain to?
It is not clear whether these people were security on duty or what their relationship was to you? They certainly appear not to be "random white guys" because you know their names!
Was there a disciplinary hearing and were you asked to attend it?
What exactly were you told on the phone in relation to the dismissal?


The matter of these individuals allegedly assaulting you, or allegedly taking drugs is not connected with the dismissal, and you must make your own decision as to whether you wish to attempt to complain about them or press charges. However, unless you can prove these things happened, I would suggest that your version of these events may be less than credible since You did not complain about either of these events at the time and are only now doing so after you have been dismissed. So unless you can obtain evidence it will almost certainly be seen as nothing but sour grapes.

[Matikata]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

I am sitting here trying to decide whether you are for real. I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that you may be. I find the things that you said offensive too, and I wish that I could say that I am astonished that you don't understand why saying such things are offensive. They most certainly are racist and sexist, and you need to understand that simply because the person you say something to does not find it so, or appears not to find it so, does not mean for one minute that it isn't - nor that other people who overhear such comments made by you are not able to complain. It is not required that someone be black, or female, to find racism and/or sexism offensive.

They are offensive when used in an offensive manner, I was not using either in an offensive manner, hence the parties involved not being insulted or anything.

That said, there is much information missing from this if we are to give any advice at all:
How long have you worked for Showsec?
1 Year

On what basis do you work for Showsec - what is your contract with them, and is this agency / contractor work?
It's a contracted job, I go where they send me

Who actually dismissed you - O2 or Showsec?
As I understand it, O2 have said they don't want me working there, which was followed up by Showsec then sacking me

If you were not at work, how would these people know that you work there and who to complain to?
It is not clear whether these people were security on duty or what their relationship was to you? They certainly appear not to be "random white guys" because you know their names!
It was a staff party, there was no security on site as the venue was closed and all the staff were inside the building. The security onsite were people like myself who were drinking. The first female mentioned works behind the bar, the second female mentioned works security, the guys that made the complaint work backstage.

Was there a disciplinary hearing and were you asked to attend it?
No.

What exactly were you told on the phone in relation to the dismissal?
Somewhere along the lines of "A complaint was made, they have taken statements etc, it's all gone up through HR and they've decided to sack you. You'll receive a letter shortly".


The matter of these individuals allegedly assaulting you, or allegedly taking drugs is not connected with the dismissal, and you must make your own decision as to whether you wish to attempt to complain about them or press charges. However, unless you can prove these things happened, I would suggest that your version of these events may be less than credible since You did not complain about either of these events at the time and are only now doing so after you have been dismissed. So unless you can obtain evidence it will almost certainly be seen as nothing but sour grapes.

I know there are CCTV cameras that record onto a system in the control room, that will have seen what happened for sure, it's just weather I can get it or not.

[Eloise01]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

1.. No they are not only offensive if the people involved in a conversation find them offensive. And "I'm not a racist, my best friend is black" hasn't been a defence since the 1960s - and even then it was a poor defence. If you wished to hold a private conversation, then it should be held in private. If you hold it in public, it is not a private conversation.

2. O2 are within their legal rights to refuse to allow you to work on their premises.

3. You may have misunderstood the question about your contract with Showsec. On what basis are you working for them? Are you a self employed contractor? Are you on a zero hours contract? What is the nature of your working for them?

[Matikata]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

1. I don't use my best friend as an excuse =]

2. I thought as much.

3. Erm... To be honest i'm not sure! I think I'm classed as self-employed, but I have a contract with Showsec.

[Eloise01]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

I have checked the Showsec site. From what information I can gather there, you are not an employee. Your are either self-employed as a contractor; or casual (which means that you are only treated as an employee in law whilst actually in work, and any gaps, even of a few days, break continuity of employment); or zero hours (which means that you are not an employee and do not accrue continuous service). This would accord with the "method" adopted for the "dismissal" in that it would be unlikely that a company of this size and experience would conduct themselves in this manner (especially since HR were involved) uness they knew that they were on solid ground. Not impossible - but exceedingly unlikely.

The upshot of this is that unless you can evidence that you are an employee, you have not got any entitlement to claim unfair dismissal, and there is nothing that you can do.

[Eloise01]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

Hmm. And February 2012 isn't a year yet, is it? So it's all irrelevant because you can be dismissed, even if you can prove status as an employee, for pretty much any reason. People do look at other sites too, you know!

[enquirer]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

Erm... To be honest i'm not sure! I think I'm classed as self-employed, but I have a contract with Showsec.

Who pays your income tax and National Insurance?

[Eloise01]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

Who pays your income tax and National Insurance?

That isn't an appropriate test of employment status. Zero hours contract workers have tax and NI paid by the "employer", but are not employees. Tax and employment law apply different standards. Tax law is about where the liability to pay tax lies. That liability does not determine employment status.

[stevokenevo]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

Interstingly, and topically, black dave won the 2.15 at lingfield yesterday, 7/4 favourite

[BlueStar83]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

im with you on this....private conversation but the law is not on your side.....some of my conversations at work could be deemed pretty offensive.....im also gay, but find jokes from friends funny....but really just be more carefull in future....and feffo take the others down with you, have they followed there own procedures?

[bluebottle]

Re: Dismissal Over White Person Being Offended On Behalf Of Black Person

I have noted that the two muppets who were throwing you around had been snorting cocaine and you witnessed them doing this. Have you made management aware of this and have you made the police aware of this, also? Cocaine is a controlled drug within the meaning of the Misuse of Drugs Act. Its possession without lawful authority is a criminal offence. Its a pity you didn't make your managers aware of this at the time. However, if they knew the muppets were snorting cocaine and did nothing about it, they are potentially at risk of prosecution as well as the two muppets. There may also be a case to answer under Health and Safety legislation as cocaine has the ability to impair judgement and rationale.

As a retired policeman, in my experience and opinion, you would be wise to report the two muppets to the police for the drugs, not the assault. My fear is that if these idiots get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle or into a situation where their judgement is impaired having taken cocaine, someone could get hurt or worse.

As for the actions of your former employers, I am sure the police will have plenty of questions to ask them about their employees snorting cocaine on duty. And, no it will not be seen as sour grapes. If it is going on, some low-life has supplied them with the cocaine and management are turning a blind eye, they will deserve everything that is coming to them.