Recent bad weather & no pay

[Eggbound]

Last Friday half an hour before I was due to start my shift, I got a call off my Area Manager to say don't bother coming in, we're shutting all shops this afternoon because of the snow. And we'll be shutting all shops tomorrow, Saturday too. You can take it as unpaid leave or as part of annual holiday...

Firstly as I understand it, under these circumstances, the employer cannot force you to take the time off as annual leave. Am I right?
I know they have to give 2 days notice for 1 days holiday etc etc.

It wasn't a case of the shops being open and I couldn't make it in because of the weather. In those circumstances, I wouldn't expect to be paid. The company had taken the decision to close for a day regardless, therefore it could be classed as a lay-off (albeit short term). Am I right?

I asked if I was going to be paid for the 6hrs Friday & 8hrs Saturday and was told in no uncertain terms, no. If they don't pay me, could this be regarded as an Unlawful Deduction from Wages?

There is nothing in my "contract" nor the Employee Manual regarding this scenario. I also thought there was some sort of Statutory Guaranteed Payment to cover situations like this ????

Need advice...please

PS. We weren't affected by any snow here, I could've gone into work. However due to H.O closing I could've been the only one working and probably not wise had something "gone wrong" during the day to have no back-up. Anyway- not given the choice to work...

[Eloise01]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

In law, yes you are correct. If you were willing and able to attend work and were refused work, then that is the employers problem and they owe you the pay. And what do you think might be the consequences of arguing this? Because what is legally right doesn't always mean the same thing as sensibly right. Your choice. Sorry, but that is the fact of the situation - do you really want to pursue unlawful deduction (which, based on what you say, is legally right) in exchange for your job? Which may, unfortunately, be the choice you are making.

[Eloise01]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

Oh - and I only just noticed it was you who posted this! What happened to, stick head firmly under parapet and do not rock the boat? Do you have a death wish in terms of this employment? If so, fine. But it would be ever so helpful if you didn't keep starting new threads like it isn't all connected because all it gets you is disconnected and poor advice based on inaccurate information. If you wish to have a war with your employer, then fine, be my guest. But there are ways and means to pick your grounds, and all you seem to be doing is fighting trench by trench. That is not the way to win a war - it is the way to get lost in the trenches.

[wales01man]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

Eloise01
You are brilliant i have read all your posts,you say it straight out with good sensible advice i imagine you are an employment lawyer or even a lecturer you seem to know your stuff.I expect some will say you are to hard on some people but being soft and saying what you think aint no good ?
Look forward to your next advice

[Eggbound]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

Eloise01 i imagine you are an employment lawyer

I'm imagining a Barrister.

I'm not the sort of employee who is prepared to be treated like a doormat and this issue isn't connected to the 'other' as I'm not the only employee prepared to challenge the employer on this.

I'm glad I'm legally right; I value your opinion Eloise01 but it sounds like you're condoning the behaviour of an employer who is trying to circumvent the law. You say "there are ways and means to pick your grounds" but haven't actually given me any advice, except to put-up and shut-up. How do you propose I win this "war"?

[labman]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

I don't mind if Eloise is a lawyer, a doctor, a cleaner or whatever. What I do care passionately about is that people on here are given good quality, straightforward advice and support. Eloise seems to fit the bill to me and has my full support based on what I've seen so far.

Eggbound - you say Eloise hasn't given any advice except for to put up and shut up. Firstly, that isn't what she said. She gave a straightforward assessment of the situation in which you find yourself. Secondly, if putting up and shutting enables you to keep your job, I consider that good advice. I'm sure a few people would like it, if you don't want it.

Just my opinion.

[Eloise01]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

I'm imagining a Barrister.

I'm not the sort of employee who is prepared to be treated like a doormat and this issue isn't connected to the 'other' as I'm not the only employee prepared to challenge the employer on this.

I'm glad I'm legally right; I value your opinion Eloise01 but it sounds like you're condoning the behaviour of an employer who is trying to circumvent the law. You say "there are ways and means to pick your grounds" but haven't actually given me any advice, except to put-up and shut-up. How do you propose I win this "war"?

You might be correct.

Everything is connected. If you can't see that, then you aren't looking at the right picture! If other people are preraed to challenge it, and preferably take the lead on it - great. But for one employee to be constantly "in the attention field" of the employer is not healthy. Being right, or sometimes being right, isn't important. Employers can play for the lonf game, and the long game means you have no employment at the end of it. If you want to be a professional troublemaker - join a union and become a union rep. It doesn't give you immunity, but it is better than constantly sticking your head up above the parapet and taking the potshots. Sooner or later, one will hit.

I never condone unlawful behaviour. But I am realistic enough to know that in the real world, it doesn't function quite like that, and there are ways and means to fight battles, and sometimes, the better part of valour if you want a job is definitely to shut up. It may not be palatable, but it is a fact. You haven't actually given any grounds at all to start a war. You clearly don't like your employer. I am not sure I like them either. But they have skirted on the right side, or close enough, of legal from everything you have said, most of the time. And you aren't a moving target. As I told you before, if you are willing to risk your job then fine - but if you aren't then don't go down this route. The employer is moving against you on performance, and is still some way away from dismissal which is good for you. You made the mistake on the opt out, not them. But keep presnting a target and sooner or later they will hit it. So my advice is - stop presenting them with a target.

[Eggbound]

Re: Recent bad weather & no pay

And an update on this one too...submitted a Formal Grievance. Normally they are pretty sharpish with their replies, however they took over 2 weeks to "investigate" my grievance, which is not normal for them. Their reply was riddled with mistakes and other stuff, like telling me there is "no such thing as having to give 2 days notice to take 1 days leave". I'm sure there is? Anyway, didn't pay me but they owe me more money now for something else (of which they've been reminded at least 6 times) but that's yet another story...


Thanks for all the replies.