Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

(Though still not completely convinced by the HWB)

According to the Oxford Dictionary a hot water bottle or hotty is slang for "a sexually attractive person, especially a young woman"

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hottie

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Yes I get you on the HWB - that's why I said that my first reaction was a "choked gurgle", and then I saw that it could be interpreted different ways. Another unwise action in a string of unwise actions. But then I am trained to look at facts twice - my father, on the other hand, wouldn't have bothered with such niceties. He'd have been with PlanB down the office...

I honestly think that the biggest problem here is that there are probably two inncoent people here - or two guilty parties, depending on how you look at it. To be honest, the person I am feeling rather sorry for, and this doesn't happen too often, so it's a date worth noting in your diary, is the poor b****y employer who has to try and make some sense out of all this and find a solution! I am quite positive that I wouldn't want to be in his shoes today.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Just had a vivid memory of how it feels to be that age and what you say is accurate. (Though still not completely convinced by the HWB)

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Even more puzzlement over the suggetive qualities of hot water bottles, PlanB - have never thought of them in that way - puts a whole different perspective on Hubby pottering off for an early night with one tucked under his arm!

I am afraid that I have to admit that PlanB's interpretation was also my immediate reaction! As you observe, hot water bottles have an association with "going to bed", and it isn't a stretch of the imagination for an inference to be drawn from the statement made. An inference that may be right, or may be wrong, but which some people would certainly make, especially if there were "context".

Yes, it is certainly true that in some cases alleged victims of bullying and harassment make stuff up. It is also true that alleged perpetartors who are erudite, well read and articulate can make otherwise innocent words into weapons to suit their purposes. I am not trying to assert judgements here - it isn't my place and none of us knows all the facts. But I am trying to put myself in the place of a 17 year old (which this young woman was when all this started) and despite the passing of a lot of years since then, I am doing it a little too successfully. At 17 I did not come from a broken home, and I knew everything there was to know. Just like every 17 year old I have ever met. I was wordly wise, and my parents were old fogies who understood nothing about being young. I could look after myself and was supremely confident that nothing I could face would ever get the better of me or defeat me. Anyone ever met a 17 year old that isn't that cocksure?

Looking back, if I had had the attention of a 28 year old man focussed on me, I think I would have been very flattered. And it's certainly always been a thing for girls at that age to "pull" men, hasn't it? If I was given gifts by that man, I doubt I would have rejected them. Again it might have been flattering, but in hindsight I wouldn't have been able to reject them because I didn't have the maturity to know how to handle complex interpersonal relationships. I might have been awed by the experience of an older man in matters of life that I was only just dipping a toe into. If he was well read and seemed smart and educated, then so much more so.

I am also quite sure that my father, upon the first hint of such attentions from a man 11 years the senior of his teenage daughter, would have been of the mind of PlanB to punch his lights out. And probably ground me until I was 25. At least. They might have been innocent intentions, but I am quite positive my father wouldn't have been inclined to have a sincere man to man chat about it first.

It is easy to forget that this relatuonship, whatever it is, began when this young woman was 17, at an age when it is easy to get into things that are out of your depth and hard to get back out of them again. It has been going on for three years, and 20 is not actually all that old. Certainly not nearly as mature as anyone at that age thinks they are!

[AllAroundJustice]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Dear Getting Screwed,
please research the case of Roldan. It appears to me that this is a "he said - she said" situation to which Roldan applied. Save all texts/log all calls/ avoid contact witrh her or her friends/ family ... do all that you can to protect YOU becuase it's a small step from where you currently are to the police knocking on your door with a Harassment Warning Notice. It would appear that you now have to separate your emotions from the facts of the situation.
Are you being suspended on full pay? Has the other party been suspended also? Does the other party have any kind of relationship with management?
Is it possible for you to easily find employment elsewhere? Whatever you do, it seems that you may have to put this down to experience. You're right when you say it takes two ... so (when you're more emotionally detached from the situation) you may like to look deeply within and ask yourself why you need to rescue women ... because this may be a pattern in your life - that you create dependency in them (not necessarily consciously and no judgment being made my friend.)
Hope this helps ... Brian

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Am a little flummoxed here as my interpretation was definitely of a romantic, chivalrous and platonic love rather than the Humbert Humbert version. However this is a legal question on a legal site so I'm sure the above answers from an objective point of view are more helpful to the OP's present needs than my breathless admiration for his prose. (Agree, though, with Sapphy and Cel that a writing career beckons for GS)

Even more puzzlement over the suggetive qualities of hot water bottles, PlanB - have never thought of them in that way - puts a whole different perspective on Hubby pottering off for an early night with one tucked under his arm!:ranger:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I saw that movie too, loved it!

If I remember correctly (it was 2005), both alternatives kind of converged into one in the end, didn't they? Her fate was to be with the other guy, not with her unfaithful boyfriend!

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

This reminds me of the movie Sliding Doors where Gwyneth Paltrow plays the part of Helen who is sacked from her job at the beginning of the film, but then the story unfolds in two different parallel versions. One is sad and the other has a happy ending. It's a brilliant chick flick but men should enjoy it too opcorn:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120148/plotsummary

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

In terms of unwanted gifts, I asked how can you eat with someone, ask them for advice and accept a gift from them 2 weeks earlier then not accept something? 2 weeks difference with no reason why in between? The ‘it’ was hot water bottle; “Keep yourself warm kid” was what I told her. She’s constantly shivering and coughing.

.

It's my turn. I'm old enough to be your mother so please take what I say as well-meaning.

If my young and vulnerable (you said she comes from a broken home) daughter had told me her boss had given her a hot water bottle and told her "keep yourself warm kid" I would personally have gone round to your office and punched your lights out for doing something so sexually suggestive.

Never mix business with pleasure because it always ends in tears. Going to a bar after work to mingle and seemingly flirt with a younger member of your staff on a regular basis (not just the Christmas Party) was a risk you took and it's backfired spectacularly. Ditto texts. Did you instantly delete hers or did you happily reply at 4 am?

Your posts say little about the serious employment disciplinary issue and a lot about your emotional attitude towards this girl in graphic detail. Are you worried about losing your job or losing this girl? Whatever did or didn't go on there was a connection between the two of you for a long time.
In the end she dumped you. Get over it :behindsofa:

[wales01man]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Having read the first post and the others from the OP as a neutral i would be thinking that the OPs behaviour can be viewed in different ways my thinking would be thet he acted with good intentsions and was taken advantage of by this girl all ok until as we all know someone comes along and changes the girls attitude to him,the employer will probably will side with the girl to avoid a scandal their first priority will no doubt be damage limitiaton What the OP says he has done has been done by many before and will in future be done by others its in some peoples nature to care for others but in the end many wiil end up in the same boat <hope it turns out all right for both of them i say this because we have only heard one side of the story on here,

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Brilliant, fearless analysis as usual Eloise. What is a Japanese betting ring?

I assume it is a reference to a now mostly archaic practice of illegal betting on sumo matches, which I believe was a "boisterous" activity of seedy men in darkened rooms. It's all very modern now - it's mostly on line, albeit still illegal.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Brilliant, fearless analysis as usual Eloise. What is a Japanese betting ring?

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I'm sorry, but at the risk of being very unpopular, eloquence does not equate to truth. We are at risk here of falling over ourselves, it would appear, to assume the worst about this young woman and assume that GettingScrewed is the innocent dupe in a epic soap opera because he is literate and articulate. And I would also point out that one persons "truth" is not always the same as someone elses "truth" - like beauty, truth can be in the eye of the beholder. I am afraid that having seen many such stories as this one, albeit perhaps less eloquently put, it is entirely possible for both versions to be true. And I am sorry but the more that GettingScrewed writes, the more the "truth" becomes obscured by questionable actions and statements. I may not craft words as well as GettingScrewed, but my livelihood has depended on dissecting and analysing them in as much detail as a forensic anthropologist analyses a body for the "truth".

I think CleverCloga has made an exceptionally valid point - there is evidence here that GettingScrewed, at the very least, has gone way beyond what would be a most unwise professional relationship with a member of his staff. His writings indicate a depth of feeling that is way past "caring" and may even be interpreted as "fixation". If these words "I saw something I wanted and I tried to get it, someone I actually thought could make me happy", as they appear to do, refer to this young woman, then it is anundantly clear that the relationship was not one of "caring" or "mentoring" from the OP's point of view, and had moved significantly beyond that in the OP's mind.

Celestine also makes a very valid point. It is all too easy to be drawn towards certain personality and physical traits which young women often exhibit in abundance, but which are certainly not unique to them - I know of women and men who are much older who are able to use such "wiles" to their advantage. The difference is that generally, younger people are less aware of their power in this respect, and although this young women may, in fact, be very manipulative on this account, that also does not infer an awareness or a deliberate intent in her actions. She is 20 years old. There is no evidence to suggest that she is anything other than a 20 year old. Not a Siren. Not a Femme Fatale. Not a Black Widow. In our human society, a responsibility lies with older adults to act wisely and with maturity, especially towards those who are younger and less mature - if you wish, less wordly wise. Getting carried away with the beauty of the words can blind us to that fact. This is not a Jane Austen novel.

When analysing an employment scenario, we look to facts, not word crafting. And we also look to inconsistences in evidence. It may seem harsh and cruel, but it is not about emotions - it is about extracting truth from what people think, from their perspective, is the truth. Inconsistencies such as the fact that last night the OP had a new girlfriend and a new relationship that he feared would be ruined by these allegations. Within a day that relationship has ended. Perhaps not impossible, but certainly somewhat precipitous and questionable. Inconsistencies such as "anyone that could have stepped forward seemed to favour her more than me, though some people did say she’s not all that innocent" - which tends to indicate that that witnesses did step forward, and they attested to bullying behaviour towards this young woman on the part of the OP. Where are the OP's witnesses to the contrary? Some of these incidents allegedly occured outside the workplace when the OP was in a bar, and were witnessed by the OP's friends. Where are their statements supporting the OP's version of events? Such statements are crucial to discrediting a version of events that is allegedly fiction, but which appears to be supported by witnesses. Where are the 3,000 texts - have these been submitted in evidence? Do they not support a different version of events?

I invite you to consider the version of another "OP", who I freely admit is a fiction:

"My 20 year old daughter has worked for XX store for the last three years. During that time she has been befriended by her older male manager. She is not a very mature young woman - not stupid by any means but easily led. During the last three years I have become increasingly concerned about his conduct towards her. They are in frequent contact outside working hours. He appears to take a prurient interest in her relationships with others which goes beyond the workplace, and has been advising her on her boyfriends and sexual relationships. He buys her gifts. I know that she has got preferential treatment over other staff in relation to things like holidays. I am very concerned about this relationship. She has no interest in him "in that way", if you see what I mean, but I do fear that his actions indicate that he is thinking otherwise, and she simply isn't mature enough to realise that he isn't just her friend, and that the way he acts towards her isn't quite right. This isn't how a manager should be. He's in a position of authority over her, and I worry where this is leading..."

How would we react to that? I know that as a mother with a daughter who was once 20, I would have very definite opinions as to the total inappropriateness of that relationship. It is not the way that a manager should act in the workplace. It is certainly something to worry about, isn't it? The OP talks about "friendly" hitting and punching. But this isn't a high school. It is a workplace. And such behaviour is not appropriate to it, and not appropriate between a manager and their staff. He talks about telling her to sit down and putting his hand on her shoulder to "guide her" into a chair. If she does not wish to sit down, why must she? It is not apppropriate to physically touch her to achieve that end.

I am not saying this to get at the OP. I am sure that their version of the truth is accurate from their perspective. But that does not make it the truth. It only makes it one version of it. Being supportive is not just about sympathising. It is also about being rational and pointing out that the OP has been exceedingly naive and very, very foolish. It is better to acknowledge that and try to make the best of it than to dress it up in flowery words that justify it.

And frankly, I think that final image of a Japanese betting ring does the OP no credit at all. It is none of the OP's business who she "goes to next". And nor should it be.

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Oh lordy you write with such passion, I feel that I know you personally.

Ok here's my thoughts on this...

Yes you 'fell' for this girl and her tales of woe and so on, you are an honourable man and did what the majority of good men would do and that is support this girl throughout, but and this is a big but, she saw kindness as a weakness and basically (in Essex parlance) rinsed you of gifts, probably money and of course your feelings. This has left you in an awkward position at work with her side of things and how she has twisted it all in her favour.
You need to harden you heart towards this 'Lolita' and fight back, this is now war, yes I know you hate the idea, but you'll hate the idea more if you lose you're job and signing on the dole, its fight or flight I'm afraid and she can go out and start again at her age, sorry to say this but it will be a bloody lot harder for you to do at your age.
As much as I feel for you in all of this I also feel for your friend who is also your boss, (I'm a boss too), I can see that he is now going through all kinds of emotions, he wants to support his friend (you), yet he wants and needs to make sure that he does everything by the book otherwise he could fall foul of the legal side of all of this, no wonder he slumped in a chair, he's probably not sleeping either, I guarantee he is worried sick for his business, his livelihood and everything else because if he gets it wrong he can/could lose the lot, that's a hell of a position to be in and I don't envy him at all.

Please, please do me one favour, if ever you decide to retire or if you do fall out of work, then do consider taking up writing, you can self publish on Amazon and hopefully make some money along the way, my step daughter has two books on there at the moment and is writing her third at the moment, ok they are not bestsellers but they are jogging along, but if you are lucky you could take off, I mean look at the woman last year, she wrote a trilogy, self published on Amazon and everyone was reading them, she sold millions and a film is being made, you may have heard of them ...... it the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy.

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Never a lust. I straddled a difficult line between a mentor and someone who developed feelings. Dealt with, in the past. That didn't mean I'd screw her over, she's a good kid I'd like to think? I always called her kid too.

She's pretty and always attracted unwanted attention. She would come to me with this, yet it seems she has sold me down the river on the same withered log. She had a habit of falling out with her boyfriend and going to her friend, then falling falling out with her friend and going to me...I suppose when she fell out with me she went to my employer. Who does she go to next??? Picture a Japanese betting ring drawing on a huge chalk board!