Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

[GettingScrewed]

Hi all,

I’m having some difficulty at work and would be grateful of any help. I am a 31 year old male, I work in retail and was suspended and given a letter inviting me to a disciplinary hearing. This stems from an incident that occurred this past Friday between myself and a female member of staff that is 20 years old, I had attempted to tell her that I’m done with her other than on a professional level but I would appreciate it if she would stay away from me in public areas such as a bar. The conversation got heated, ended and the next thing is I have a complaint against me.

Her complaint is that she has been harassed and bullied by myself in the workplace. I know this particular girl for the past 3 years and we were at one stage very close friends. She had come from a broken home and I would look out for her and make sure she enrolled in school classes, attempted to boost her confidence, little things like that to the point where she had titled me her ‘best friend’. She at one point confided in me that her at the time boyfriend my have been off with another girl. I gave her advice, told her what I thought and said I’d support any decision that she made. Part of her complaint now seems to be that I got involved in her personal life?

Our friendship became strained over the years, partly because of this ex-boyfriend, because I did develop feelings for her and she had told me that she really cared for me. I also began to think on the advice of my friends that this girl was using me for what she could get.

About a month before Christmas we had an argument as to one of her holidays. Later that night she was in a bar, I approached her to tell her that she could have the holiday but she refused to acknowledge who I was to the point whereby one of her friends kicked a chair at me. I left the table and hadn’t spoken to her since other than to give her instruction in the workplace. She had made a statement in work that she was uncomfortable with me and our shifts were changed. I had no problem with this and cut my losses. A few days ago in the same bar I was with my friend when she walked in. I turned away from her and enjoyed my night, at the end she approached my friend who was standing directly in front of me and threw her arms around him. Surely a female can not state that she is uncomfortable around you, that she is harassed and bullied, and then approach your company in a bar while you stand there a foot from her person? She said she appreciated the fact that I did not approach her but surely I am entitled to the same courtesy on a professional or personal level. In fact my letter states that she feels “scared in my presence at times”. I take the at times to be when it suits her to say so.

I made this statement today as part of the investigation to address my employer’s comments that I was too emotionally attached to her and that I cared too much, to partly apologise for any hurt feelings and to be allowed to actually make the change and distance her in my life.

You do become emotionally attached when a girl tells you:

When a girl texts you at 3pm to ask if you’re ok? When you respond yes are you? Her reply is that the previous night someone dropped some Rohypnol or some other such substance into her drink, waited for it to take effect and then took her down an alleyway. Apparently even being told by the staff that they’d had a problem with someone date-raping their female customers. The initial contact on this subject of asking was I ok, was a clear cry for help, swearing me to secrecy that I wouldn’t tell her family. And when something like that happens, You do care.

When a girl holds on to you for hours while you wipe an endless flow of rolling tears from her eyes. When on the same night as she leaves with her ‘friends’, who smirk in the doorway like a group of hawks circling the parapets, and she clutches on to you so tightly, buries her head in your chest, then looks you directly in the eyes, tears once again streaming down her cheeks and proclaims that “These are the people you’re supposed to protect me from”. The incontrovertible truth is that you do become emotionally attached and you do care. To not care would be emotionally callous and inhuman.

It’s hard not to feel aggrieved when after the time and emotion I invested in another person is degraded with the words, “I used to really care about you but our friendship was a mistake, I regret every second of it.” This collective grouping of these choice words in that consecutive order took anything that was left.

When you buy what someone else is selling and you become emotionally attached and you do care, you hand someone the keys to do that to you. Close friends told me she was playing games and she was using me. I admittedly refused to listen and in doing so became the willing accomplice to my own destruction. My intention on that day was signify change, but change is not instantaneous. Change needs to be quantified, calculated, and weighed against alternatives and in doing so I should hope I can change my own bad fortune, my own errors of omission and inattention, my own faults.

I did not berate her, if anything I complimented her work ethic and her abilities. I said I liked the girl, called her “fantastic” and described her as possessing an inexorable quality. In fact from the beginning of my friendship with her I noticed her potential. I attempted to take this girl that didn’t seem to realise her positive attributes and suggest she draw confidence from them, that she was more than just average.

I post this because as mentioned I did have feelings for her, and I agree that my above statement might have been emotional but that I was trying to illustrate that I cared because I was made to. Since December I was attempting to put my life back together, I had made the decision that I would not be her get out of jail free card anymore, I would not be her guide, that she was responsible for whatever happened to her on her watch. I have just started dating a great girl and now it seems as one final parting shot her grievance stands to cost me everything, my livelihood, my friendships, my new relationship, my home and my reputation.


I understand that this is a messy situation and I would be grateful for any advice or help that is offered. I had invested time, emotion and finances in her, much of which was graciously accepted and appreciated at the time. My letter today stated that I had given her unwanted gifts, but they didn’t seem to be unwanted at the time. It seems that this employee has pulled out everything she can to get me based on a friendship that turned sour over a period of time. I contended that I cared because I was made to care, that there were always two people in this equation, so two people were responsible. I should also state that we remained on a friendly and talkative basis right up until a month ago, yet the letter states "over several months".


Thanks to anyone who answers…

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

"Either that or I fall back on my Rhinestone denim jacket business that I’m sure is about to come back into fashion any day now. "

Tee hee GS - gotta post again and say that even that (which may well work) is better than mooning over your illusory love. Why do we all get so bitter when someone turns out not to be the person we projected on to them?

The reasons that cliches become cliches is that they reflect truths. "Sawing sawdust" springs to mind -as does:deadhorse:

You need to get out there and find yourself a real woman who will embrace the truth about you and see who you really are.

As for career - I think the rhinestone denim would go very well with a writing career

Keep us all posted - I'm not the only one here addicted to the story-telling and we are waiting for the happy ending x

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I thought that too PlanB as I typed it msl: although,knowing the person involved I bet he would have tried if he could.

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Once upon a long time ago,,within the last 6 years,someone I loved and trusted did me a huge wrong . . . .

. . . . Last week,I found out the person involved had been caught out doing something naughty (financially) and I laughed my head off because God doesn't pay his debts in money,this person has had his just rewards,I knew my day would come

It's good to know that even God is aware of the statute of limitations :bounce:

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You came here to get information on employment law and to unload. The good thing about internet forums is that you get diverse opinions. It's like switching between Oprah Winfrey (fuzzy wuzzy :grouphug: ) and Jeremy Kyle (brutally honest :director and both have their uses.

I can never 'move on' from a situation which has hurt me because I need closure and preferably revenge because that works for me :smash: You must do what works for you.

Bearing in mind that there are still two sides to every story, and just because the OP's version may be true from their perspective does not mean it is the only version or the only true version (from other people's perspective)... And wasn't it you who was about to go around and punch someone's lights out over a sexually suggestive hot water bottle, which kind of illustrates the point! And also bearing in mind that if we strip this down to the basic facts, an employer got a complaint about bullying and harassment which was supported and borne out by multiple witness statements, so are we actually saying that if the alleged perpetrator is your friend they should ignore the facts in front of them and let you off (because that would tend to fly in the face of saying that bullying and harassment should be treated seriously in the workplace)....

What particular brand of closure and preferably revenge would you suggest that doesn't have a high degree of risk to the OP? The OP is fond of quotations. Here's one. "When seeking revenge, remember to dig two graves".

Moving on doesn't, as others have said, mean forgetting all about it. It means learning from the experience and going forward from it. There have been some very painfully gained lessons here which I doubt (and hope) the OP won't forget in a hurry.

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Once upon a long time ago,,within the last 6 years,someone I loved and trusted did me a huge wrong (family),it wasn't physical,abusive or violent but it hurt me so badly because it hurt 2 other family members as well as me.
There was an almighty hullaballoo,shouting,swearing,threats of excommunication from the family etcetc,,the only one who didn't kick off was me,,it hurt too deeply. I was silent and have remained so all this time (and for a tempermental person like me it shocked everyone,(I'm the family a rsekicker,always have been).
Last week,I found out the person involved had been caught out doing something naughty (financially) and I laughed my head off because God doesn't pay his debts in money,this person has had his just rewards,I knew my day would come,,didn't know when or how but I knew it would and it's a lovely feeling .
My point is,,pick your battles carefully, cos if you lose, the pill is very very bitter.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You came here to get information on employment law and to unload. The good thing about internet forums is that you get diverse opinions. It's like switching between Oprah Winfrey (fuzzy wuzzy :grouphug: ) and Jeremy Kyle (brutally honest :director and both have their uses.

I can never 'move on' from a situation which has hurt me because I need closure and preferably revenge because that works for me :smash: You must do what works for you.

You can move on in the sense that you get on with your life, but you can't really FORGET a bad experience, or those who hurt you in the past, even after many years. :clock:It's just not something you can easily control, I still remember my experience with a City employer who sacked me in 2003 as if it had been yesterday, that's one of the things that motivated me to participate in consumer forums. From a legal point of view, the matter was officially settled but in my mind, the abuse of the little people by the big guns has never been settled. :evil:

I'm sure I will still remember similar, more recent events, as vividly in 10 years time, even when I'm (hopefully) living in A Place In The Sun. In my experience, you get on with your life, but you never really forget. :nono:

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You came here to get information on employment law and to unload. The good thing about internet forums is that you get diverse opinions. It's like switching between Oprah Winfrey (fuzzy wuzzy :grouphug: ) and Jeremy Kyle (brutally honest :director and both have their uses.

I can never 'move on' from a situation which has hurt me because I need closure and preferably revenge because that works for me :smash: You must do what works for you.

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

As I read your latest post I had all sorts of comments,quotes,theories,thoughts and pearls of wisdom running through my brain and then I read Eloises' comment about 'moving on',,and it sums it up eloquently and succinctly,,learn from it and move on for your own sanity.

I wish you all luck for your future.

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I think the long and the short of it is to move on.

If your employer say you owe him money, you are under no obligation to "look into it" (unles you paid yourself it, which I sincerely hope you didn't). If the employer alleges an overpayment it is up to the employer to evidence this. So tell him to.

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Jeez Eloise! Now I’m Jimmy Saville? Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words will hurt forever!

Perhaps I shouldn’t have been so friendly with her; I assure you that I am like a broken Playstation in that I do not play any games. She was moping around and telling me that she didn’t have any friends, that she was always an outsider. I took her under my wing to begin with and we just became friends from there. You seem to want to write that I ‘should never have been friends with her’ on a sack full of oranges and clobber me around the head with it. Point taken, understood and accepted.

When his dad died, I was not just doing my job. There were others in my position and they weren’t going to do it. I took it upon myself on my days off to come in to sort these things. I text his girlfriend and told her to keep him away. To let him spend some time with his ailing mother and his heartbroken sister. I was at the funeral and came to the house later and spent a few hours having drinks with him and sister while they regaled me with stories of their father.

I did indeed resign which I’ll talk about later. There was no reasonable belief that I did what I was accused of. I told him off the record that “You know I didn’t do what she accused me of, I know you do and so does your girlfriend because you were both with me every step of the way. Your girlfriend even tried to talk me into pursuing her against my better judgement” He told me that even though he wants to, he can’t tell me what he thinks of her now…I must stress all intentions were good and the girl and I remained very friendly up until a month ago, while I had moved on and was dating.

Two of the witnesses involved in this were earlier mentioned playground nonsense, (if you care to go back a few posts I detail this), and the other two would have been two people I may have called upon to be my witness in the disciplinary. He made sure he got to them. These were two guys that called her a silly little girl, twisted, manipulative and repeatedly used the word dangerous. One of the guys was out with me on both the nights mentioned previously and the other told me several times that he hated her because of the way she treated me. Their statements said only that it was “uncomfortable” when the girl and I weren’t getting along, but nothing of how they witnessed anything she did, no mention of manipulation or twisted character on her part that they had so openly referred to many times previous. The worst thing about those involved here was not the strident clamour of those whom it seemed were out to get me, but the appalling silence of the good people, the people that could have made a difference for me.

The minutes weren’t typed when I went back for the decision and he revealed to me off the record that he was told to fire me no matter what and pay a fine of need be. He also told me that he only furnished the people he was talking to with her side of the story. The whole procedure seemed like he was never investigating any ‘facts’ and that he was only there to convict me. It solved all his budget and possible redundancy problems. It was an opportunity that he took advantage of. I really did not like the fact he took the two guys I would have relied on and effectively made them useless to me. He is clever enough to do this.

I mentioned the fact that I would like to file a grievance against her as I disagree with almost everything she had stated. I quoted section 44 of ACAS,

“Where an employee raises a grievance during a disciplinary process the
Disciplinary process may be temporarily suspended in order to deal with
The grievance. Where the grievance and disciplinary cases are related it
may be appropriate to deal with both issues concurrently”.

I was refused and told the disciplinary had to continue.

I don’t think he liked hearing that the consensus was that I ran the place, but this was not my opinion and this was not my fault. As previously stated a staff member spoke out of turn to him and he told her she was “You’re lucky it is me here and not someone else.” When he told me this I asked him to “Listen to yourself man???...” As noted, there are others in my position, yet I was told “they learn from me”. I did not sign on to be a teacher to other people that are paid the same wage to perform the same tasks and duties. My employer and I did not always see eye to eye regarding things like discipline. If I believed him to be right though, I would support him. Sometimes I supported him in silence, sometimes I supported him with a respectful dissent, either way it was always support. It really is a case of when the king puts the poet on the payroll he cuts off his tongue. I could say nothing without looking like the villain while he maintained the good guy status.

As I began to distance myself from her and finally cut myself off I told him that no one knows or understands better than me that if you surround yourself with children and people that act like children, then you will inevitably be confronted with and forced to deal with the problems of children. I come to the further realisation that much like Danny Glover’s character Roger Murtaugh in the Lethal Weapon movie series, I am indeed “too old for this *****”.

Here’s the scoop…HERE is what happened today.

Much of what Eloise stated seemed to be the view of the solicitor although he told me that he has just had a case that is very similar in the details. He said they had a very sympathetic tribunal but ultimately lost. Afterwards he was told that he would probably have won but what cost him is the fact that he resigned. He said the case was so very similar but it was that one thing that cost him. He elaborated to say that there is still a possibility but he wouldn’t be overly optimistic. I do not pretend to know if this was a shrew move on the part of my employer, advice given to him by his own solicitor or team at HR, but I am just an ordinary person that had come here for advice. (I have no great knowledge of this and have appreciated all input, from Eloise’s knowledge, to PlanB and FlamingParrot’s advice, to CleverClogs' notions of a trollop, and of course the advice and support of MissFM, and everyone else!). I did not have his team and he knew I wouldn’t like the mark against my name. I have never been accused or involved in anything like this before. I would feel like the depths of my soul was branded with an accusatory iron, on display for all to see.



To add extra salt to my already gaping would, my employer text me today to say that I had been overpaid a few months back and that I owe him at least £200. I have no knowledge of this whatsoever so I told him I’ll look into and get back to him. That’s just great, like I can afford to lose that at this point. Suddenly that oxygen is running out faster than anticipated.


My family, in the small town of ‘Nowheresville’ have offered me a roof over my head, I may even be able to swing an apartment rent-free for a few months…for all there is to do though, I might as well have a tent in a field. I have an uncle that said he’d keep an eye out for me. He works for an insurance investor. I think he is confined to a desk all day, every day though, which I can only imagine would be as exciting as watching a water tornado dance between two plastic bottles that I taped together in GCSE geography class. No offence to anyone that works behind a desk.

I would feel like a soldier that just out of the military after 10 years of service with only my duffle bag to show for it. Stepping off the only bus that travels through town and walking down the dusty road back to where the old mill has closed down. Either that or I fall back on my Rhinestone denim jacket business that I’m sure is about to come back into fashion any day now.

I have lots to think about in terms of whether I just get another job or up and transplant my city life back to the small town where a rent-free roof and a possibility of employment could await.

When I was getting my photo taken with my nephew in our Superman t-shirts my sister actually showed me the trailer for the new Superman movie. The young Clark Kent saves a school bus full of children from certain doom and one of the kids witnesses his act of super strength. His dad, Jonathan, gives Clarke a telling off and the boy responds with “What was I supposed to do, just let them die?” Is that my lesson here? What was I supposed to do, just let the girl cry in front of me, turn her away at times when she really did in fact need help? It might be easy to say yes now, but not so easy at the time when confronted with a quivering lip and a stream of tears. Is that my lesson though? That the world only wants what it can get from you…

It was put to me recently that if a person is laying in the street, the victim of a robbery, bleeding out from a knife wound and a random stranger comes along and pulls out a needle and thread, tells you he’s a doctor and can stop the bleeding. You’d want him to stop the bleeding right? Instead he tells you he’s nice, doesn’t drink, never forgets birthdays, never uses foul language…but none of that matters, can he stop the bleeding? That is all you want from him. I say this because the girl in question didn’t care about any of my qualities, she only cared about what she could get from me…and when I cut her off, I ended up here with a newfound cynicism and jaded negativity.

As for the girl I had started dating, I think that’s pretty much finished with. How could I explain all this to her? I’d find that about as comfortable to explain as my sex change, my radioactive spider-bite and the dead hooker that I have chained to the radiator in my bathroom.

I am nothing more than a de-clawed kitten at this point. I may not have done everything by the book. I may have gotten too close, or emotionally attached though I sort of feel like I was unfairly punished for attempting to walk in the light of creative altruism. Perhaps others in a similar situation might read this thread and learn from the knowledge and wisdom imparted and my mistakes along the way, or just get a chuckle for my idiocy. I am left with a feeling of loss and shame, like I was just beaten up by a nine year-old girl wearing a My Little Pony backpack, with the added humiliation that she took my lunch money and pushed me over while all the cool kids looked on.

Maybe I’ll get lucky and discover that in the end I’m Bruce Willis and I’ve been dead the whole time.

I read this exceptionally deep and profound quote recently. I found it meaningful and impassioned. It spoke directly to my heart and filled me with a glimmer of hope for the human race…so I thought I’d share it with you…I am not religious as such but I believe it comes from the Church of Excellence…


“Everyone be excellent to each other. Church dismissed”

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

[QUOTE=GettingScrewed;310597]. I guess the solicitor didn’t tell me that on the phone earlier. It is indeed a free first consultation that I have with her on Wednesday morning.

/QUOTE]

^^^^ So, what happened?

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

These days employment references are mostly about confirming dates, at least that's the case in large organisations.

Not by any means. People keep saying this, but I actually see no empirical evidence to support it. It is true of some employers, just as it is true that some employers don't consider a reference of this nature sufficient. In my experience the only reliable evidence of what an employer provides, or what one will accept, is what they do!

But I think that manners (if we are talking in the abstract here) never harm anyone, and asking if a manager or someone providing an employers reference is willing to do so is just that - good manners. I wouldn't, for example, have held it against anyone I employed if they hadn't asked me, and they'd have got the same reference anyway, but it always made it simpler not to get it out of the blue. Plus, if they really didn't have a great reason to go, I might be able to entice them not to!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I am frequently asked to write references for people. Clearly when you use someone as a referee, it is common etiquette to ask the person for permission to do so. Where people fail to do this, I always start, "I was somewhat surprised to be asked for a reference for Mr X, as I had never been asked if I would act as a referee. However, ......."

Where the person asks, and I feel my reference would do them no favours, I always suggest they find another referee. If they insist on using me, and incredibly some still do, I give an honest negative reference, and they don't get the job.

One thing is personal/character references, another is references from previous employers. For personal ones, I totally agree, you should contact the referee first and only a fool would contact someone who may give an unfavourable reference, however, for employment references you don't contact your previous employers to see if they would act as referees, you just provide your previous employment details.

Depending on the circumstances, you may give the name of a contact (some employers insist in it being your line manager), but in some cases they go straight to HR. These days employment references are mostly about confirming dates, at least that's the case in large organisations.

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Yes that is possible. But it isn't foolproof. It depends on what the OP is actually wanting. And what their best chance of getting it is. That's something only they have the knowledge to decide. I've certainly known a few employers who have breached CA's - via that wonderful thing called the telephone, for example! Hard to prove and harder to action. It depends on whether you both enter into the agreement with positive intentions. If one party doesn't... That's why, whatever the OP may now think, if the employer thinks he is still a friend, it may be that guilt will trip him where a lawyer may not.