Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Before I did anything at all I might decide which "version " of the employer I am propagating. Is he the friend, backed into a corner and the weight of the world on his shoulders (earlier posts) or the scheming Machiavellian with an intimidating and bullying nature? A good reference, if that is all that is required, may be snared with more honey than vinegar. And will cost through a solicitor, if you get it. I'd suggest trying a personal approach first. More chance of success and costs nothing.

Not necessarily, see my post above. Neither one of us had to part with a penny (although I did make a £100 donation to the legal advice centre, but that was the least I could do).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Or you may be able to come to an amicable agreement brokered by a lawyer where they will provide you with a *neutral* reference if you don't pursue this to the ET. That's called negotiating a severance package not blackmail :grin: Check out your legal rights and then use them as bargaining tools.

I got such an agreement some years ago after being sacked for alleged "gross misconduct" by a City F in$titution. :scared: I'd been told I only had a 20% chance of winning at the ET but I was offered what's known as a 'Commercial Settlement' where the other side made no admissions but agreed that it would be cheaper to settle than to defend at the ET (they'd hired a top notch law firm). The settlement included a small sum of money and an agreed reference, which I wrote myself. Both parties agreed not to slag each other in public for the next five years (been nearly ten now so I'm free! :lol: ) and they were to provide the agreed reference to anyone who asked. The agreement was brokered by my solicitor through ACAS.

A friend of mine resigned from a job where he had personal problems and then went to the same legal advice centre as me, he claimed Constructive Dismissal even though in all honesty, he didn't have much of case, but was also offered a similar settlement of a month's salary and an agreed reference. :grin:

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

and sorry - my post has crossed with others - I was referring to Eloise's and Labman's (118 and 121) - have not yet had time to digest the later ones

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Or you may be able to come to an amicable agreement brokered by a lawyer where they will provide you with a *neutral* reference if you don't pursue this to the ET. That's called negotiating a severance package not blackmail :grin: Check out your legal rights and then use them as bargaining tools.

Before I did anything at all I might decide which "version " of the employer I am propagating. Is he the friend, backed into a corner and the weight of the world on his shoulders (earlier posts) or the scheming Machiavellian with an intimidating and bullying nature? A good reference, if that is all that is required, may be snared with more honey than vinegar. And will cost through a solicitor, if you get it. I'd suggest trying a personal approach first. More chance of success and costs nothing.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

GS - am sure that much of the above was not what you would like to see/hear. It is likely, though, to be fairly accurate in terms of how the world works. None of it would be meant to hurt you - quite the contrary. See what your solicitor says - and ask her to be clinically ruthless because you neither deserve or need to be messed around or fleeced.

I am - we all are - on your side, however it might seem

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Or you may be able to come to an amicable agreement brokered by a lawyer where they will provide you with a *neutral* reference if you don't pursue this to the ET. That's called negotiating a severance package not blackmail :grin: Check out your legal rights and then use them as bargaining tools.

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

How about calling her "doxy", "strumpet" or "trollop"?

That would, of course, depend on the degree of your death wish. Or possibly on the degree to which you are intent upon name calling someone whose version of events is not in evidence. There are always, as I have pointed out, two sides to every story. For all we know the OP is a fantasising predator who targets young and impressionable women. I give my advice based on what an OP says, or possibly on what they don't say. It may or may not be what they want to hear, and it may or may not be advice based on the truth. That is impossible to control or manage. But I would not assume the veracity of someone else, or indulge in name calling, when they have had no opportunity to put their own side of the story.

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I would trust Eloise on this, and to be honest would let it drop. Put it down to experience and get on with your life in a somewhat wiser way.

I am frequently asked to write references for people. Clearly when you use someone as a referee, it is common etiquette to ask the person for permission to do so. Where people fail to do this, I always start, "I was somewhat surprised to be asked for a reference for Mr X, as I had never been asked if I would act as a referee. However, ......."

Where the person asks, and I feel my reference would do them no favours, I always suggest they find another referee. If they insist on using me, and incredibly some still do, I give an honest negative reference, and they don't get the job.

The reference point is thus very true.

I have to say, and you won't like it, but if you were to approach me with your background known to me, I would not touch you with a barge pole.

There will be plenty of help here about how to move on and what help and support you can get from this point, but I agree, you really should let this drop.

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

And here's another big tip - refer to her as "girl" or "kid" and that does not improve your credibility one bit.

How about calling her "doxy", "strumpet" or "trollop"?

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

A few months ago I had just come in to start my shift and my employer and another member of management were in the office with a general assistant. He was arguing that he had asked for holidays that were not granted. I honestly don’t know who was right or who was wrong in that situation but a few times I thought that particular employee was mistreated. I was just standing around in the background while this was going on, the door was open. He was cut off by both my employer and the other member of management and told to “Shut up and listen for a minute.” Afterwards I took my employer aside and told him you can’t do that. I think that verged on bullying him. He has a right to his opinion and a right to make a point. My employer disagreed with me and I asserted that I thought this was close to intimidation in the workplace.

One might wonder if he had been smoking too much skunk weed. :rofl:

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You are still confusing your story with employment facts. It doesn't matter why you were friends with her - although as I told you from the beginning, this was at best unwise. Although I have to say that what others have told you here is quite true - I would, as far as is humanly possible keep quiet about your relationship because it raises a range of questions which it would be better if you didn't have to answer (especially not in a court) and which an employers lawyer will have a field day with (which is why they would almost certainly raise them). You may think that you don't mind the salacious details being dragged out - if so then you have never met opposing counsel in a court room. And don't think for a minute that this won't affect the view that your own counsel will take (assuming you get that far). They may or may not find your story credible, but even if they believe every word that you tell them (and you must tell them the truth), they would have to consider your credibility to the court. And at the risk of overpressing the point - you were a much older man in a position of authority who took a far from professional interest in a young woman who was, and should have remained, nothing but an employee. And here's another big tip - refer to her as "girl" or "kid" and that does not improve your credibility one bit.

A tribunal (nor a lawyer) are not interested in the slightest in what a nice guy you are or what you might or might not do for other people. That is not relevant at all. Two hundred witnesses to your being a nice guy will not help one bit. Nor does doing your job when the employers dad dies. Nor does the fact that you think your employer was your friend. Nor your opinion of how he ran the place. None of that is relevant. I don't know what you think will "come to light" at an employment tribunal, but if you start throwing irrelevant mud then the only thing likely to come to light is a costs award - against you! And that doesn't happen very often, but make no mistake, they do happen.

Relevant fact one: You resigned. Voluntarily. If you have a claim for constructive unfair dismissal, then you have less than a 3% chance of winning a tribunal. That's the best case scenario. On the facts you have disclosed, frankly, I'd put it at nearer to zero. You had other options - you could have faced the disciplinary. You were given that choice and freely chose resignation. So far you have failed to demonstrate any fundamental breach of contract on the part of the employer. If you cannot get past this, then you are completely and utterly finished.

Relevant fact two: If you get past fact one, then you have failed to demonstrate any way in which the employer has acted improperly or has come to a decision which any reasonable employer may not come to. The employer does not have to have evidence that the allegation is true - they only require a reasonable belief that it is true. And as I have told you previously, I think you have furnished them with more than enough information to reach that conclusion. Your own "evidence" is littered with questionable actions and poor judgements for a person in a management position. You have furnished me with enough information to believe that it is possible, whether intentionally or not, that your conduct was unacceptable, and I have only heard your side of the story, but there are always two sides! You have said that there were witnesses against you and that those witnesses substantiated the allegations of bullying. Is this the case or not? What did they say? How was the disciplinary process conducted - details? You have been asked several times, but we still don't have any answers - and this is the most and probably the only relevant bit!

Relevant fact three: you mention getting a reference before you start legal action. Think this through very carefully. Very carefully indeed. Few employers will accept a reference in this way - they expect to be able to contact the former employer directly and get it from them. Do not depend on any reference remaining unchanged or favourable. A reference only has to be truthful - not nice or good. Expect it to say "Gettingscrewed resigned immediately prior to the findings of a disciplinary hearing into allegations of bullying and harassment", which would be truthful. Or the other old favourite, sure to knock 99.9% of all jobs on the head "We decine to provide Gettingscrewed with a reference". And there are also these wonderful things called telephones - they may not have them in the backwoods area your parents live in? They are a means by which employers communicate with each other about things like "don't touch him with a bargepole, he did all this and now he's trying to claim unfair dismissal" and which you cannot evidence. That isn't a reason not to start a legal claim - assuming you can find a lawyer to represent you - but be clear, it happens, it happens a lot, and if you aren't able or willing to win the war, then don't start one. Employers, former friends or not, have not by any means finished with you when you resign, and they aren't without formidable weapons - if you want to work again any time soon. So if you want a good reference, then do not start a war. Because a good reference is the least likely thing you will get.

And a couple more facts for good measure. The employer never had to offer mediation - it isn't a legal requirement. Some, mostly large, employers may offer it if appropriate, or as a method of demonstrating they exhausted all avenues. It is nowhere near even being required though, and the majority of employers, especially small employers, do not offer it. And if you want to think of this as a literary form - go minimalist. "You cared" is not a defence - in fact it raises more questions than it answers. What would you do if she didn't care or reciprocate, being one of them. I do not wish this to offend you, and I am defintely not making a direct comparison, but there was this guy who cared. Lovely guy. Raised a whole load of money for charity. Something of a saint. He "cared" too. Which was why Jimmy Saville managed to get away with heinous crimes without any investigation for the whole of his life. Caring isn't a defence. And it may actually be quite the opposite to any help.

To be honest, I think you have little to no chance of an employment tribunal. Purely based on what you have said here, I would strongly question any solictor who took on your case unless it was for free! I certainly wouldn't spend any money on it, and to be clear, based on your own defence so far, I wouldn't take it on. Sorry, that's not personal, it is just an assessment of probabilities. And to be honest, I am not sure that I would advise you to take it on either, because I do not think things will get better, and they could get an awful lot worse.

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Those links are quite helpful PlanB, Thank You. I guess the solicitor didn’t tell me that on the phone earlier. It is indeed a free first consultation that I have with her on Wednesday morning.

I suppose I have no real option than to apply for JSA. It’s just a really weird feeling as this is the first time in the best part of a decade that I find myself without employment. The only reason I had not done so far was because I wasn’t sure I could if I resigned? Someone told me this. I am confused and I guess in shock from everything that has transpired. I have no idea what to do as I have never been in this position before, so I am learning as I go.

My only cushion here is that I barely took any holidays last year, so he owes me quite a bit. I’ll get it and get hammered on tax but that combined with some other money in the bank will keep my head above water for the next month. Unfortunately my finances are my oxygen at this point and with each day that goes by, the air seems a little thinner.

Like you said, I’ll see what the solicitor has to say on Wednesday and take it from there, but with each passing day this valuable oxygen supply of mine diminishes, the kind people on here breathe new life into my efforts.

I’ll go see my 18 month old nephew again, so he can throw some plastic blocks me. A photo op is to be had also as we’ve now got matching Superman t-shirts! I live…at least I currently have a roof over my head about 100 miles away from where my parents and my sister live in their respective homes. So I’ll enjoy the little fella while I’m here, as I’ll be returning to the city tomorrow

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

. . . . as I rent my house . . . .

If you rent your house you should apply for Housing Benefit to cover it now that you're out-of-work. If you're on JSA it's more or less an automatic entitlement depending on whether you have capital such as savings etc over a certain limit. You can apply for Council Tax benefit too.

You say you've worked at the company for nine years so you'll have paid tax and national insurance contributions all that time so why not cash in now on any benefits you may be entitled to claim

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You're officially unemployed as of Friday so 'sign on'. Here's where you can apply for JSA online:

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/how-to-claim

People on benefits are usually entitled to Legal Aid depending on the merits of the case and lots of other hurdles to jump. If not see whether you can get a free solicitor to help you through one of the Lawworks legal advice clinics if there's one in your area:

http://www.lawworks.org.uk/help-for-individuals

See what the solicitor has to say on Wednesday (most will give you the first interview without charge in order to acquire your business) and then call her back the next day and say you've found a free one who'll take it from there

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...ector-job-cuts

:behindsofa: