Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

[labman]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Sorry - I don't get this!

I know you didn't concur with my previous post Eloise. I was not 'having a go,' I was stating that everyone must be able to contribute, and specific people shouldn't be picked out over and above others. I stick by that. Miss FM knows me well enough to know it is nothing personal.

Your subsequent post however demonstrates that you have clearly got an outstanding knowledge of this. It is spot on, kind, but straight. It is what the OP needs to know.

I thank you for sharing what is clearly to me a voice of substantial experience.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Sorry - I don't get this!

It's because I am relatively new to this and haven't got the hang of a lot of things yet and this isn't my first solecism - it is good and helpful to have mistakes pointed out as can then learn from them. Presumably helpful to others too.

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

I know you didn't concur with my previous post Eloise. I was not 'having a go,' I was stating that everyone must be able to contribute, and specific people shouldn't be picked out over and above others. I stick by that. Miss FM knows me well enough to know it is nothing personal.

Your subsequent post however demonstrates that you have clearly got an outstanding knowledge of this. It is spot on, kind, but straight. It is what the OP needs to know.

I thank you for sharing what is clearly to me a voice of substantial experience.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you at all labman - unless we are talking at cross purposes and I disagreed with you somewhere else! I just think that MissFM was enthusiastically trying to be helpful, as she says, and didn't mean anything by it. I didn't take your post as having a go at me or her at all. I think, to be honest, what she was trying to say was that she didn't really know about the employment side of things and others did - I don't think the list was supposed to be exclusive. Just perhaps not put as she might have otherwise done. I utterly agree that any there are many ways of looking at things, and any perspective can shed light on a situation.

And I know you didn't make the comment, but I still don't know what it was a reference to ... some things have a way of sliding straight past me!

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Here’s the long and the short of the entire story.

I became friendly with the girl in question, looked after her a little, then some more, and then some more. We began to get close, became ‘best friends’. She would call or text when she needed something. Little girls do get themselves into trouble and I am very of aware of this fact. We spent some time together outside of work. I offered her guidance and advice when she needed it and eventually developed feelings for her. She knew I had these feelings as I revealed them to her against my better judgement, but based on the advice of my employer’s girlfriend. Even so we became closer and closer. I continued to help and she continued to accept and appreciate the help that was given up until a month ago.

There was no hint of a problem; there were no complaints of harassment up until this point particular in time. We had disagreements over the course of our friendship as any two friends might but we remained quite friendly. At one stage before Christmas I told her that I was going to step away from her and I would not being doing things for her anymore. She responded by threatening that she “would do less work” if she lost her ‘privileges’. She then smirked and informed me that she would “just get someone to do things for her”.

Policy is that holidays are booked 4 weeks in advance, but this girl would always come to me and ask with maybe 2 weeks or maybe 1 week left on the clock. She knew I could pull a few strings for her and she would get her time off. 2 Weeks before Christmas she wanted a holiday for her birthday. My employer initially refused, but I offered to work the hours if she could get it off…seeing as how it was her birthday. I would be working 14 hours that day to cover my shift and hers. A few days later my employer’s dad died and so my duties on the rota changed. I told her I’d still sort it for her but now that I can’t do it, I’ll sort someone else that would. She kicked off and started an argument with me. At no pint was she ever informed that she had the holiday off.

When she left work she still didn’t have it off. I had the intention of texting her to tell her that she could have it off…it was her birthday after all. I had been in a bar 10 minutes when she turned up and I thought, what’s the point of a message when I can just tell her. She ignored me and her friend kicked a chair at me. A few others stood up at the table and I walked away. I was annoyed and walked outside. Two of her male friends approached me outside and said they didn’t know who I was. To them I was just some “random guy”. We talked for a while and I assessed that it wasn’t fair, that if it got heated or physical, then the only person that could have prevented it was her. All she had to do was put her hand up and say “It’s OK, I actually know him”. The friend that kicked the chair at me does know who I am, and she is as wicked as they come. Outside her friends seemed friendly enough, shook hands and ended with “it was nice to meet you”…”Yeah, nice to meet you too”. Her recollection of the story was that I came over, knocked everyone’s drinks over, threatened to fire her and then stood staring at her all night while “necking pints”. NONE of this is true. Absolutely nothing.

We had minimal contact for the next few weeks as my employer thought her would change our shifts. I had no problem with this as in my head I was done with her, I had explained this to her a few weeks prior, and to him. A week ago, in the same bar on the same night, she walked in and I just turned around, and said to my friend, let’s completely ignore her and just have the night that we we’re supposed to have last time. I purposely stayed well away from her and did my own thing. I spent time talking to a girl in the bar for a good portion of the night. I’m not sure if this girl witnessed this or not, but at the end of the night she came right over and dramatically threw her arms around the friend I was with and spent about 10 minutes talking to him. This is what I don’t understand, how can you come in and make a statement that results in shifts being changed and then come over and stand right in front of me. It was an obvious attempt at “Look at my new man” whom she had with her. I turned away and had nothing to do with it. The next day, I brought my employer and the girl together. I said I wanted nothing more to do with her and I would appreciate the same courtesy of staying away from me that I gave to her. It then became heated with my employer stating that “she can talk to whomever she wants”. I said maybe but it’s quite hypocritical. The next day I have a harassment grievance against me.

I’m not sure what this has to do with legalities, but that really is how events transpired. There’s the back-story.

It might also be worth mentioning that my employer was talking about scaling back management shifts a week ago, either that or someone could take a voluntary redundancy. This seems to have solved his problems to some extent. I'm gone, no need to pay me redundancy.

2 months ago, I stated to a member of management, whom I regarded as friend in a private conversation, (A week earlier I picked him off the floor crying as his wife had suffered a third miscarriage), that one of the staff members won the lottery with his girlfriend, if they ever broke up that he would have a hard time replacing her. He agreed with me. 3 weeks later he told the girl I was referring to that I had called her boyfriend “stupid”, and that she should “dump him immediately”. I asked him, not only why would he twist the story, but why would he even do that at all? Two of the four people my employer decide to take statements from regarding the whole thing that has brought me here were the two people involved in this little story. One of them will now certainly get my job.

I had been employed there for almost 9 years and have never had a single complaint against me. I enjoyed working there and seeing the people that came through. I made many friends there, though the majority do not work there anymore. It was a friendly place and we would do our best to accommodate students and their shifts, etc.

I do not mean to have inconsistencies in my story and I’m more than happy to answer any questions. In terms of being the person that likes to help and got burned for it, I look at it as a lot of people look at someone that needs help and thinks what might happen to me if I help that person, whereas I look at that them and think what might happen to them if I do not.

I’m going to make a few phone calls at this stage and perhaps talk to a solicitor. I think I’ll also get a written reference from my employer before I make any legal moves.
And what's the thing with MissFM and Eloise??? :tinysmile_aha_t: I appreciate everyone's advice on any level...Any train of thought separate from my own is another outlook on the whole situation.

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

At a time like this you could do with a combo of both emotional support and legal information, and I see you're getting both from posters on this thread

In view of that I have two questions. Firstly, what does your new girlfriend make of all this, assumming she knows you didn't go into work today, and you seem to still care a lot about this girl? And secondly would anyone in your office say that you had been as innocently helpful to any other employees ? The latter question would probably crop up if you went to an Employment Tribunal and claimed to be a regular guy who looks after all co-workers with problems.

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Hi PlanB

I have not told the girl or contacted her, I had only started dating her and I am embarrassed and ashamed. I have never had anything of this nature happen to me at all. I don't know what I would say to her...I mean how I explain that..."Hey guess what happened to me today?"...

In terms of helping other people? There is around 25 staff that worked there. I always tried to help anyone I could. Everyone arrives on any given day with a diverse range of problems. A few weeks ago a staff member informed me his dad was having some problems. Some kids were making fun of him because he has a cleft lip and speaks with a lisp. The kids actually attacked their house and smashed a window. I offered to go and help him. I let him out early because something happened at the house and I even called him at 10pm that night and offered to come and help him with the police that at that point the family had deemed it necessary to call.

I have in the past called landlords on behalf of staff members that were students and not completely sure of their rights. Kind of like “What? Your landlord is screwing you over. Let me talk to him.”

When someone forgets their wallet, loses their atm card, or is just flat broke, I’ll loan you a couple of bucks until you can pay me back.

I have helped my employer on many occasions. When his dad died recently I came in on my days off and worked on new rotas for the coming weeks. I tallied staff working hours and emailed it to his home so that all staff could in fact get paid that week.

This isn’t information that would be voluntarily offered up, but if in an Employment Tribunal, it might come to light.

A few months ago I had just come in to start my shift and my employer and another member of management were in the office with a general assistant. He was arguing that he had asked for holidays that were not granted. I honestly don’t know who was right or who was wrong in that situation but a few times I thought that particular employee was mistreated. I was just standing around in the background while this was going on, the door was open. He was cut off by both my employer and the other member of management and told to “Shut up and listen for a minute.” Afterwards I took my employer aside and told him you can’t do that. I think that verged on bullying him. He has a right to his opinion and a right to make a point. My employer disagreed with me and I asserted that I thought this was close to intimidation in the workplace.

I think this combined with the fact that he was told that he may be the owner but I ran the place didn’t sit well with him.

You noted a combo emotional support and legal information. I couldn’t put it any better. Thanks to all involved. I am not long off the phone with a solicitor and I have an appointment on Wednesday morning. I can’t do much until then. I am not entitled to legal aid though as I rent my house in the city, so I do not have the luxury of claiming it from my home insurance.

I think I’ll talk with the solicitor, weigh up the options and if it isn’t worth the hassle, if I don’t have a case then I might just have to cut my losses and walk away.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

"I am not entitled to legal aid though as I rent my house in the city, so I do not have the luxury of claiming it from my home insurance."

At high risk of speaking out of turn - I don't think this is how legal aid works.

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You're not speaking out of turn MissFM

I can only go on what I'm told and this is what the solicitor on the phone told me. She said that it is not offered for employment law and then suggested I could maybe claim it from a home insurance, though as I rent my house, this is not an option.

[MissFM]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...ector-job-cuts

:behindsofa:

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You're officially unemployed as of Friday so 'sign on'. Here's where you can apply for JSA online:

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/how-to-claim

People on benefits are usually entitled to Legal Aid depending on the merits of the case and lots of other hurdles to jump. If not see whether you can get a free solicitor to help you through one of the Lawworks legal advice clinics if there's one in your area:

http://www.lawworks.org.uk/help-for-individuals

See what the solicitor has to say on Wednesday (most will give you the first interview without charge in order to acquire your business) and then call her back the next day and say you've found a free one who'll take it from there

[PlanB]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

. . . . as I rent my house . . . .

If you rent your house you should apply for Housing Benefit to cover it now that you're out-of-work. If you're on JSA it's more or less an automatic entitlement depending on whether you have capital such as savings etc over a certain limit. You can apply for Council Tax benefit too.

You say you've worked at the company for nine years so you'll have paid tax and national insurance contributions all that time so why not cash in now on any benefits you may be entitled to claim

[GettingScrewed]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

Those links are quite helpful PlanB, Thank You. I guess the solicitor didn’t tell me that on the phone earlier. It is indeed a free first consultation that I have with her on Wednesday morning.

I suppose I have no real option than to apply for JSA. It’s just a really weird feeling as this is the first time in the best part of a decade that I find myself without employment. The only reason I had not done so far was because I wasn’t sure I could if I resigned? Someone told me this. I am confused and I guess in shock from everything that has transpired. I have no idea what to do as I have never been in this position before, so I am learning as I go.

My only cushion here is that I barely took any holidays last year, so he owes me quite a bit. I’ll get it and get hammered on tax but that combined with some other money in the bank will keep my head above water for the next month. Unfortunately my finances are my oxygen at this point and with each day that goes by, the air seems a little thinner.

Like you said, I’ll see what the solicitor has to say on Wednesday and take it from there, but with each passing day this valuable oxygen supply of mine diminishes, the kind people on here breathe new life into my efforts.

I’ll go see my 18 month old nephew again, so he can throw some plastic blocks me. A photo op is to be had also as we’ve now got matching Superman t-shirts! I live…at least I currently have a roof over my head about 100 miles away from where my parents and my sister live in their respective homes. So I’ll enjoy the little fella while I’m here, as I’ll be returning to the city tomorrow

[Eloise01]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

You are still confusing your story with employment facts. It doesn't matter why you were friends with her - although as I told you from the beginning, this was at best unwise. Although I have to say that what others have told you here is quite true - I would, as far as is humanly possible keep quiet about your relationship because it raises a range of questions which it would be better if you didn't have to answer (especially not in a court) and which an employers lawyer will have a field day with (which is why they would almost certainly raise them). You may think that you don't mind the salacious details being dragged out - if so then you have never met opposing counsel in a court room. And don't think for a minute that this won't affect the view that your own counsel will take (assuming you get that far). They may or may not find your story credible, but even if they believe every word that you tell them (and you must tell them the truth), they would have to consider your credibility to the court. And at the risk of overpressing the point - you were a much older man in a position of authority who took a far from professional interest in a young woman who was, and should have remained, nothing but an employee. And here's another big tip - refer to her as "girl" or "kid" and that does not improve your credibility one bit.

A tribunal (nor a lawyer) are not interested in the slightest in what a nice guy you are or what you might or might not do for other people. That is not relevant at all. Two hundred witnesses to your being a nice guy will not help one bit. Nor does doing your job when the employers dad dies. Nor does the fact that you think your employer was your friend. Nor your opinion of how he ran the place. None of that is relevant. I don't know what you think will "come to light" at an employment tribunal, but if you start throwing irrelevant mud then the only thing likely to come to light is a costs award - against you! And that doesn't happen very often, but make no mistake, they do happen.

Relevant fact one: You resigned. Voluntarily. If you have a claim for constructive unfair dismissal, then you have less than a 3% chance of winning a tribunal. That's the best case scenario. On the facts you have disclosed, frankly, I'd put it at nearer to zero. You had other options - you could have faced the disciplinary. You were given that choice and freely chose resignation. So far you have failed to demonstrate any fundamental breach of contract on the part of the employer. If you cannot get past this, then you are completely and utterly finished.

Relevant fact two: If you get past fact one, then you have failed to demonstrate any way in which the employer has acted improperly or has come to a decision which any reasonable employer may not come to. The employer does not have to have evidence that the allegation is true - they only require a reasonable belief that it is true. And as I have told you previously, I think you have furnished them with more than enough information to reach that conclusion. Your own "evidence" is littered with questionable actions and poor judgements for a person in a management position. You have furnished me with enough information to believe that it is possible, whether intentionally or not, that your conduct was unacceptable, and I have only heard your side of the story, but there are always two sides! You have said that there were witnesses against you and that those witnesses substantiated the allegations of bullying. Is this the case or not? What did they say? How was the disciplinary process conducted - details? You have been asked several times, but we still don't have any answers - and this is the most and probably the only relevant bit!

Relevant fact three: you mention getting a reference before you start legal action. Think this through very carefully. Very carefully indeed. Few employers will accept a reference in this way - they expect to be able to contact the former employer directly and get it from them. Do not depend on any reference remaining unchanged or favourable. A reference only has to be truthful - not nice or good. Expect it to say "Gettingscrewed resigned immediately prior to the findings of a disciplinary hearing into allegations of bullying and harassment", which would be truthful. Or the other old favourite, sure to knock 99.9% of all jobs on the head "We decine to provide Gettingscrewed with a reference". And there are also these wonderful things called telephones - they may not have them in the backwoods area your parents live in? They are a means by which employers communicate with each other about things like "don't touch him with a bargepole, he did all this and now he's trying to claim unfair dismissal" and which you cannot evidence. That isn't a reason not to start a legal claim - assuming you can find a lawyer to represent you - but be clear, it happens, it happens a lot, and if you aren't able or willing to win the war, then don't start one. Employers, former friends or not, have not by any means finished with you when you resign, and they aren't without formidable weapons - if you want to work again any time soon. So if you want a good reference, then do not start a war. Because a good reference is the least likely thing you will get.

And a couple more facts for good measure. The employer never had to offer mediation - it isn't a legal requirement. Some, mostly large, employers may offer it if appropriate, or as a method of demonstrating they exhausted all avenues. It is nowhere near even being required though, and the majority of employers, especially small employers, do not offer it. And if you want to think of this as a literary form - go minimalist. "You cared" is not a defence - in fact it raises more questions than it answers. What would you do if she didn't care or reciprocate, being one of them. I do not wish this to offend you, and I am defintely not making a direct comparison, but there was this guy who cared. Lovely guy. Raised a whole load of money for charity. Something of a saint. He "cared" too. Which was why Jimmy Saville managed to get away with heinous crimes without any investigation for the whole of his life. Caring isn't a defence. And it may actually be quite the opposite to any help.

To be honest, I think you have little to no chance of an employment tribunal. Purely based on what you have said here, I would strongly question any solictor who took on your case unless it was for free! I certainly wouldn't spend any money on it, and to be clear, based on your own defence so far, I wouldn't take it on. Sorry, that's not personal, it is just an assessment of probabilities. And to be honest, I am not sure that I would advise you to take it on either, because I do not think things will get better, and they could get an awful lot worse.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

A few months ago I had just come in to start my shift and my employer and another member of management were in the office with a general assistant. He was arguing that he had asked for holidays that were not granted. I honestly don’t know who was right or who was wrong in that situation but a few times I thought that particular employee was mistreated. I was just standing around in the background while this was going on, the door was open. He was cut off by both my employer and the other member of management and told to “Shut up and listen for a minute.” Afterwards I took my employer aside and told him you can’t do that. I think that verged on bullying him. He has a right to his opinion and a right to make a point. My employer disagreed with me and I asserted that I thought this was close to intimidation in the workplace.

One might wonder if he had been smoking too much skunk weed. :rofl:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Accused of Harassment and Bullying...Please help.

And here's another big tip - refer to her as "girl" or "kid" and that does not improve your credibility one bit.

How about calling her "doxy", "strumpet" or "trollop"?