Sick notes

[Kitiara]

Hi All,

A bit of advice for my son please .....

My son works nights in a warehouse, his shift starts at 12:00am and finishes at 9:00am. On 15th at 6:00am he was sent home suffering with chest pains (a recurrance of a partially collapsed lung problem), he was told to go to his GP and get a sick note as he is waiting for a consultant referal at the local hospital. He couldnt get in to see his GP until today so his sick note has todays date (16th) on it, my query is ... would this cover him for what would have been his shift today? He would have started at 12:00am this morning - technically the 16th, or would they class it as working Tuesday night the 15th? Its all a little confusing as he has only been there a short time, and they operate a 3 strike policy (3 non authorised absences or 3 sickness bouts) He was given a sickness strike last Wednesday when he collapsed just over an hour into his shift and had to have an ambulance .. the lung problem! He is worried that if he is not covered by this sick note for "today" he may have another sickness strike against him which leaves him in a precarious position should they decide to operate at a later date. He had been unemployed for a long time before starting this job and is desperate not to lose it (it is through and agency).

Thanks

Kit

[Eloise01]

Re: Sick notes

I don't think it seriously matters, although not for positive reasons. If he hasn't been there for very long, he has no protection against unfair dismissal anyway, and it is relatively easy to dismiss him. Ooops, and I should always read the last few words - I'm sorry but he has no protection at all because it is through an agency, so he doesn't even work for the "employer" - he works for the agency. And the "sickness strike" policy applies whether or not he has a sick note - they always do. Such policies are not about whether the sickness is genuine or "certified" - they are about not having a lot of sickness. But yes, the sick note will cover his shift today, since he could not get it earlier and few GP's are open at midnight! It probably just won't make much difference since the "employer" (who isn't an employer - they are the client of the agency) can say they don't want him for pretty much any reason (or none) at any time. Sorry about that, but better to know the truth now.

Did the agency know about his medical condition prior to this? And did the client know? Is his condition considered a disability? And was any assessment done to check that he is fit for this kind of work? And disappointing though it may be - is he really fit for this kind of work? Collapsing at work, and chest pains at work, all within a single week, might suggest otherwise - and he should not put his health at risk for the sake of doing a job that he is not fit enough to do.

[Kitiara]

Re: Sick notes

Hi Eloise,

Thank you for your reply, it was very much as we thought - the company he is working for is well known for hiring and fireing with the slightest excuses, he only accepted the position as he had been out of work for a some time and was desperate. When he returned to work following the collapse at work, he explained the situation and that he had been advised not to do heavy lifting for a few days and asked to be put onto picking rather than emptying the containers, they refused! The condition was existing in as much as in July/August last year he suffered with the collapsed lung for the 1st time and it was drained in A & E, it reoccured 3 weeks later and he was admitted to hospital overnight, it was again drained and had several tests which all seemed fine and the problem resolved so was discharged. He is a welder, but the Drs advised him that it was not an ideal occupation as it could aggravate his lung and there were no guarantees that the condition wouldn't come back if he continued welding - hence taking the warehousing job. He didn't disclose the medical condition to his employer at the time as he had been discharged from the hospital. The agency have been very good and have said that as soon as he was ok to work again, they would find him something more suitable (he is also a qualified chef) but he just wanted to know where he stands should they decide to dispense of his services. Its quite ironic that the very manager that told him to go home on the 15th and get a sick note then called him at 2am on the 16th to ask why he was not in work!

Thanks,

Kit

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sick notes

Unfortunately when you are working through an agency you have virtually no rights and they can get rid of you when it suits them, for whatever reason. Even without those strikes policies, they can still get rid of you at a moments notice.

As bad as the above may sound, it is possible to work as a 'temp' for years without any problems, as long as the person and the job are a suitable match, which is what really counts! I had a 3 week booking that turned into a 2 year stint, which in turn lead to another year-long stint with another company. I still work as a 'freelancer' but have full time pay and benefits such as holiday pay and when I've been off sick (so far just 3 days I think), I've been paid, even though there's no obligation on their part to do so.

As with everything, it all depends on the circumstances, normally agency workers don't get sick pay because they're on a timesheet, however, they should still get holiday pay. Agencies sometimes add this to the hourly rate so it's important to check whether the rate includes it or not.

Sadly, if you are sick often or for long periods of time, they are likely to look for someone else, regardless of doctors notes. In the end, it's all at the employer's discretion. A friend of mine once was signed off for two weeks whilst on a long-term assignment and the employer (in the Financial $ector) decided not to seek a short-term replacement and replace him for good. On the other hand, another employer I knew (also in the same $ector), kept a job open for a 'temp' who went travelling for 6 months, getting another temp to replace her in the meantime! I also had the pleasure of getting sacked from the same place after 6 years of service as a PERMANENT employee! :rant::rant::rant:

Sounds like he should really try to find a more suitable job where he could build the appropriate rapport with his employer, rather than working for someone who seems to be ready to give him the boot at any time! With employment law being what it is in this country, it's all about relationships rather than legal protection.

[Kitiara]

Re: Sick notes

Thanks FP ... I have myself been the "victim" of agency work, but I've also had some good experiences with them too - I guess it's the luck of the draw!

My son unfortunately chose a career in catering (he's a qualified chef) which is precarious at the best of times, but when the recession hit, he found himself out of work frequently (last in - first out), so he decided to re-train as a welder and worked with his Dad for a while who has his own welding & fabrication business, this ended when they had a huge fall out - hence the long term unemployment. He was hospitalised during this period with the lung problem, so the agency was a last resort. He is contemplating returning to catering, but because he has been out of this field for about 4 years now, he is worried that agency work is the only option going to be available to him until he can "prove" his worth again as a chef and that this cycle of being in & out of emploment is going to continue.

I guess I sound like an over protective mum (he is 24 lol), but I am genuinely worried about his prospects at the moment.

[Eloise01]

Re: Sick notes

It may not solve his money problems if he is out of work, but it may be a good idea to think about volunteering. He's young and there's always plenty of voluntary work. It is a good way of building up new experiences and skills, getting a good reference, trying out something new, and doing something useful with his time. More than one person has moved from voluntary to paid on the basis of the skills and experiences gained this way. It may open new horizons for him.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sick notes

Thanks FP ... I have myself been the "victim" of agency work, but I've also had some good experiences with them too - I guess it's the luck of the draw!

My son unfortunately chose a career in catering (he's a qualified chef) which is precarious at the best of times, but when the recession hit, he found himself out of work frequently (last in - first out), so he decided to re-train as a welder and worked with his Dad for a while who has his own welding & fabrication business, this ended when they had a huge fall out - hence the long term unemployment. He was hospitalised during this period with the lung problem, so the agency was a last resort. He is contemplating returning to catering, but because he has been out of this field for about 4 years now, he is worried that agency work is the only option going to be available to him until he can "prove" his worth again as a chef and that this cycle of being in & out of emploment is going to continue.

I guess I sound like an over protective mum (he is 24 lol), but I am genuinely worried about his prospects at the moment.

You can go far as a chef! Just look at Ramsey, Jamie, etc. :madgrin:

There are also catering agencies who may be able to place him in this area rather than industrial work. There's lots of restaurants and hotels and it's a growing business and, unlike many other jobs, it's one you can do virtually everywhere! Maybe he could start by applying for seasonal work, for example, in a summer holiday area, either in the UK or abroad, then at the end of the season he could move on to a ski resort. Or he may try a cruise ship. The possibilities are endless!

[Kitiara]

Re: Sick notes

What a brilliant idea ... thanks Eloise!

He was supposed to go on one of those "work placement" thingies the DWP send you on occasionally and asked if he could work in the local hospice charity shop as he had recently lost his Grandad who had been cared for in this hospice, and was looking forward to it when he had his first collapsed lung so this never happened. I will speak to him about contacting the hospice shop and offering his services. You are right about getting him out of the house and keeping him motivated, he does get very despondent at the moment as he has recently also split from his gf and had to move back in with his Dad, (luckily they have made up since their huge argument - but working for him again is not an option unfortunately). It's difficult for me to do much for him as I live 170 miles away so all I can offer is long distance support like this.

Thanks again for a cracking idea!

Kit

[Kitiara]

Re: Sick notes

OooH FP - another good idea ... thank you!

He doesn't have loads of confidence and suffered minor MH issues 2 years ago which have now been dealt with, so something that gets him away from "home" like the cruise ship or seasonal work is a really good idea while he deals with the breakup of his relationship as well as all the other c**p going on. I will also pass on these idea's to him along with Eloise's charity work suggestion.

Thanks again to you both, at the moment he's worrying about the future and I'm worrying about him being worried, so anything that helps focus on positives is really appreciated.

Thanks.

[Eloise01]

Re: Sick notes

What a brilliant idea ... thanks Eloise!

He was supposed to go on one of those "work placement" thingies the DWP send you on occasionally and asked if he could work in the local hospice charity shop as he had recently lost his Grandad who had been cared for in this hospice, and was looking forward to it when he had his first collapsed lung so this never happened. I will speak to him about contacting the hospice shop and offering his services. You are right about getting him out of the house and keeping him motivated, he does get very despondent at the moment as he has recently also split from his gf and had to move back in with his Dad, (luckily they have made up since their huge argument - but working for him again is not an option unfortunately). It's difficult for me to do much for him as I live 170 miles away so all I can offer is long distance support like this.

Thanks again for a cracking idea!

Kit

Tell him not to just think about shop work - there's a lot of unskilled people in retail type stuff. There's a lot more opportunities. He should go along to his local volunteer bureau, and talk to someone there. There are real careers in the third sector (that's what they call working in charities and community organisations) for people who are committed and willing to get stuck in. And few types of work that aren't done - advice work, legal help, mentoring, housing, people with special needs, the ill, and that's just a few. There's courses and opportunities to learn in a lot of places. And if one thing doesn't quite suit him, there's other things to try. If he's willing and reliable, he'd be amazed what can open up.

[Eloise01]

Re: Sick notes

Flaming Parrot - I have to ask. What is the "I got banned club"?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sick notes

Tell him not to just think about shop work - there's a lot of unskilled people in retail type stuff. There's a lot more opportunities. He should go along to his local volunteer bureau, and talk to someone there. There are real careers in the third sector (that's what they call working in charities and community organisations) for people who are committed and willing to get stuck in. And few types of work that aren't done - advice work, legal help, mentoring, housing, people with special needs, the ill, and that's just a few. There's courses and opportunities to learn in a lot of places. And if one thing doesn't quite suit him, there's other things to try. If he's willing and reliable, he'd be amazed what can open up.

If he wants to choose this route, the CABs have opportunities for volunteers ---> http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/join-us.htm

Not much to do with cooking or catering but he may find it a refreshing change, particularly if he likes dealing with people.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Sick notes

Flaming Parrot - I have to ask. What is the "I got banned club"?

LOL!

It's a bit of an inside joke - refers to another forum, where people are often banned and given a silly little avatar that looks like this:

[Eloise01]

Re: Sick notes

LOL!

It's a bit of an inside joke - refers to another forum, where people are often banned and given a silly little avatar that looks like this:

Oh right. I think I may know to whom you refer. It may the forum that threatened to ban me shortly before I told them where to stuff it! I was very disappointed that didn't get me banned as I was infinitely less polite in my response to them than I had ever been on the forum!