is this fair or is it bullying

[minnylove]

I am part of a family owned business and am the only female, i fell pregnant 2010 went in to discuss maternity pay with the 3 owners who said i could have full pay for 9 months, i took 12 months off (3 of these unpaid). Before i went back to work i went in to discuss my job situation and THEY gave me the option of part time work which i decided to go for in a new role as my old one was full time. One of the other partners sons had a baby recently and it was voted that we (as sons and daughters of owners) were treated equally and they are now getting the 9 months pay i got when i was on maternity leave, i am arguing this as i havent been given the opportunity to earn the money the boys had in the past (when they were working overtime i asked if i could and i was told no). I made the owners aware and they said i had a fair point but i had to prove it, which i have proved (they have earned much more than i got on maternity).
Since then there has been things said to me that i feel is bullying (snide comments said in such a way that if i said anything about being bullied they could say they were only joking but i know they are not, eg in a directors meeting which we have so we can bring up any issues we feel are important i brought up a couple of points and he seemed to dismiss them and said `do you have anything serious to say`), this owner inparticular is going around the others owners children and saying it isnt fair that im on the same pay rate as the other children as im only part time but i only get paid pro rata he is also saying its not fair that im allowed to work part time (although it was his idea in the first place) and that if im doing it his son should be allowed.
Please can someone give me some advice as i feel like i dont want to even go to work anymore and i used to love going to work but im absolutly devastated

[Eloise01]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

Let me get this entirely clear - you are talking about your parents and aunts/uncles being the owners, and you and your cousins are the employees who are all squabbling about what is fair? You either need another job, a lawyer, or family counselling - and I would seriously suggest the latter or the former. And I really do mean that in all seriousness. Are you really contemplating taking your family to a tribunal for discrimination - if that is what is happening? I mean really? Because if you aren't contemplating that, I am really not sure that any answer is going to suffice because this is as much about family dynamics as about employment. And if you are contemplating it, well family reunions are going to be a great deal of fun

I think that you need to work out what it is that you actually want - and what you expect to happen as a result of that - and be clearer about what you are asking and what you are prepared (or not prepared) to do about it. Otherwise this is an impossible question to answer, because you aren't asking simply about an employment problem, but something far more complex and unique to your own family situation.

[minnylove]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

i do agree with what you say about the family thing but is it right that he (not a family member) is trying to say its unfair for me to be working part time and i should go back full time as i am caring for a child?

[Eloise01]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

Is it "fair" to say it? Well someone is entitled to their opinion! If the employer tried to make it happen, then possibly (but not definitely) not. But they haven't. And whether he is a family member or not isn't relevant - you see, even you are doing it! Would being a family member entitle him to different opinions? No, it doesn't. Frankly, the whole set up sounds like a nightmare. But then, I wouldn't work for, or employ, my family - I know them too well!

[labman]

Re: can someone please help

This is particularly sad as it's a family business. Do you get on well enough with 'this owner' to talk to him privately about this? He may have no idea how it is upsetting you. Is there one of the other owners you could confide in? Despite it being family, you still have employment rights and confidential access to your line manager is usually one of these.

[ed.]

Re: can someone please help

Can you explain the respective roles as they pertain to overtime that irks you? Because if I've understood you right, your main concern is they have potentially covered your 12 months off and earnt overtime in the process of doing that, and you think that's unfair because they earnt more, as well as having more overtime opportunities previously?

If I've understood that right, which I may not have.

As for the latter part about you being granted part time, yes it's fair a 'son' should be aswell equally on a pro rata basis.

Can you explain a bit more fully so we all know exactly the details please.

Family business issues are never the clearest, so if anybody can help we need you and I don't mean this to be patronising, but take yourself out of the situation and just explain it as fully as you possibly can so we know exactly what has happened, what you can prove, what you can show, and so on so nobody steers you wrong.

Cause to me it seems there are two parts, on one hand you are saying they other sons don't deserve the same 'child expecting rights/payments' as you because you didn't earn the same. But on the other your issue seems to be availablitiy of overtime which are completely seperate.

[ed.]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

You need to keep to one thread chuck.

And El, we are here to help. Not judge.

[Eloise01]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

And El, we are here to help. Not judge.

And in what way have I judged anyone and who exactly are you to "tell me off" for what is your opinion and a judgement about me. I have not in any way, shape or form made any judgements about anyone. I have pointed out facts derived from the posters own information, about the situation they are in and the way that they are handling it - or not handling it.

It is a fact that this is a complex matter which pertains as much to family relationships as employment law.
It is a fact that there is a stated pattern of squabbling about what is and isn't "fair" which has little to do with fairness in law and everything to do with expecting certain treatment, not as an employee but as a child of one of the owners.
It is a fact that the OP says that people who aren't family members somehow shouldn't express opinions or act in the same way as family members are doing.
It is a fact that the employer is the company, and that if the OP wishes to complain or to take legal action for alleged discrimination then they take that action against the employer - including their relatives - and don't get to pick out one director who happens to not be related to them; and it is a fact that they must decide whether they are prepared to do that given that such action would have repercissions and consequences that go beyond the employment relationship because of the complex nature of the family entwinement.

[Celestine]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

I dont think Ed was judging you, merely trying to make Minnie realise that the help she needs may be a bit hard to listen to.

[Celestine]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

threads merged for simplicity

[Eloise01]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

I dont think Ed was judging you, merely trying to make Minnie realise that the help she needs may be a bit hard to listen to.

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it - although it certainly felt like a judgement, since I didn't need to be told that people are here to help and not to judge if I wasn't (as I wasn't) judging the OP - I was simply pointing out that, to be awfully honest, I don't see a situation like this ending happily, and the OP needs to be clear about what the actually really expect to happen, and what they are prepared to do about it. I have a family too - most of us do - and I therefore know that for all the things I love about them, they can nitpick and squabble to gold medal standard. Quite apart from that, most of us know that the workplace can be just as bad at times. Add the two and you have an explosive mix. It's all very well saying that minnylove is an employee and needs to seperate that fact from family matters - it just isn't reality because that is never going to happen. It would be very irresponsible, in my opinion, not to point that out. Which I was doing. There is no way of saying "i'm the daughter today" and "I'm the employee today" and "don't mix up the two". Even minnylove can't do that - her post refers to treating the "sons and daughters of owners" equally (why - they are nothing but employees), and complaining about what a director of the company is saying "because he isn't a relative"!

[enquirer]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

pregnant 2010 went in to discuss maternity pay with the 3 owners who said i could have full pay for 9 months, i took 12 months off (3 of these unpaid).

You were given 9 months paid maternity followed by 3 months unpaid. Use the following calculator to see if this was correct. https://www.gov.uk/maternity-benefits

Before i went back to work i went in to discuss my job situation and THEY gave me the option of part time work which i decided to go for in a new role as my old one was full time.

Prior to returning to work you were offered part-time employment. You chose to do this, rather than to return full-time.

One of the other partners sons had a baby recently and it was voted that we (as sons and daughters of owners) were treated equally and they are now getting the 9 months pay i got when i was on maternity leave, ...

Other employees have been given exactly same facility as you.

... i am arguing this as i havent been given the opportunity to earn the money the boys had in the past (when they were working overtime i asked if i could and i was told no). I made the owners aware and they said i had a fair point but i had to prove it, which i have proved (they have earned much more than i got on maternity).

Part time employees are only entitled to overtime payments once they work beyond the normal hours of full-time employees.

Since then there has been things said to me that i feel is bullying (snide comments said in such a way that if i said anything about being bullied they could say they were only joking but i know they are not, eg in a directors meeting which we have so we can bring up any issues we feel are important i brought up a couple of points and he seemed to dismiss them and said `do you have anything serious to say`) ...

'They could say' and 'seemed to dismiss'. The one is speculative and the other lacks substance.

... this owner inparticular is going around the others owners children and saying it isnt fair that im on the same pay rate as the other children as im only part time but i only get paid pro rata

You appear to say that you, a part-timer, are paid the same wage as someone who works full time.

he is also saying its not fair that im allowed to work part time (although it was his idea in the first place) and that if im doing it his son should be allowed

He is entitled to his opinion.

[MissFM]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it - although it certainly felt like a judgement, since I didn't need to be told that people are here to help and not to judge if I wasn't (as I wasn't) judging the OP - I was simply pointing out that, to be awfully honest, I don't see a situation like this ending happily, and the OP needs to be clear about what the actually really expect to happen, and what they are prepared to do about it. I have a family too - most of us do - and I therefore know that for all the things I love about them, they can nitpick and squabble to gold medal standard. Quite apart from that, most of us know that the workplace can be just as bad at times. Add the two and you have an explosive mix. It's all very well saying that minnylove is an employee and needs to seperate that fact from family matters - it just isn't reality because that is never going to happen. It would be very irresponsible, in my opinion, not to point that out. Which I was doing. There is no way of saying "i'm the daughter today" and "I'm the employee today" and "don't mix up the two". Even minnylove can't do that - her post refers to treating the "sons and daughters of owners" equally (why - they are nothing but employees), and complaining about what a director of the company is saying "because he isn't a relative"!

Eloise - FWIW - just wanted to say how very much I personally appreciate your posts (in fact I actively look for them!) which always seem measured, informed and sensible. Obviously, eveyone would like to be told what they want to hear but in the end it's much, much better to be told the truth and a on site like this where everyone posts due to extreme personal circs it is most helpful to be told the truth without compromise.

[Eloise01]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

Eloise - FWIW - just wanted to say how very much I personally appreciate your posts (in fact I actively look for them!) which always seem measured, informed and sensible. Obviously, eveyone would like to be told what they want to hear but in the end it's much, much better to be told the truth and a on site like this where everyone posts due to extreme personal circs it is most helpful to be told the truth without compromise.

Gosh. Thank you. How nice of you to say so, because I haven't exactly a load of posts.

[MissFM]

Re: is this fair or is it bullying

I am part of a family owned business and am the only female, i fell pregnant 2010 went in to discuss maternity pay with the 3 owners who said i could have full pay for 9 months, i took 12 months off (3 of these unpaid). Before i went back to work i went in to discuss my job situation and THEY gave me the option of part time work which i decided to go for in a new role as my old one was full time. One of the other partners sons had a baby recently and it was voted that we (as sons and daughters of owners) were treated equally and they are now getting the 9 months pay i got when i was on maternity leave, i am arguing this as i havent been given the opportunity to earn the money the boys had in the past (when they were working overtime i asked if i could and i was told no). I made the owners aware and they said i had a fair point but i had to prove it, which i have proved (they have earned much more than i got on maternity).
Since then there has been things said to me that i feel is bullying (snide comments said in such a way that if i said anything about being bullied they could say they were only joking but i know they are not, eg in a directors meeting which we have so we can bring up any issues we feel are important i brought up a couple of points and he seemed to dismiss them and said `do you have anything serious to say`), this owner inparticular is going around the others owners children and saying it isnt fair that im on the same pay rate as the other children as im only part time but i only get paid pro rata he is also saying its not fair that im allowed to work part time (although it was his idea in the first place) and that if im doing it his son should be allowed.
Please can someone give me some advice as i feel like i dont want to even go to work anymore and i used to love going to work but im absolutly devastated

Minnylove - being involved in a family business myself I have every sympathy with you - it is not easy! Eloise1 clearly knows what she is talking about and the only thing I would add is that if it is at all possible for you to "stand outside" mentally and emotionally and then ask the same question (ie "is it fair?") and ask it in a more analytical way you may (or may not!) get a more palatable answer.